My Dose struggle

Hello,

I don't really know people on this forum although I've joined a few months ago.
But I really need some help or advice.

I started on Suboxone New Years Eve 2011 after an intense addiction that lasted years.

I kept my dose around 16mg once I induced. My problem is, I don't think I got to the lowest dose possible to keep my cravings and
withdrawals away, or maybe I have.
Let me back up a little, I was at 16mg, dropped to 14mg with no problem, dropped again to 12mg again with no problem (this spanned a month or so) then I dropped to 10mg and 2 weeks into that I started having withdrawal feelings. I ended up going back to 12mg, but here's where I messed up, I let myself creep back up to 16mg because I still wasnt comfortable. I was going through some stuff in life but nothing major that would make me want to take more, I just felt uncomfortable.
I basically had to start all over, which upset me.

My question is, how did you find the right dose that made you feel ok, with no withdrawals or cravings?

What am I doing wrong ???

Blue Eyes,
To be honest, I don't think your doing anything wrong, maybe trying to hurry yourself up a bit. You can't beat yourself up though. Sometimes this happens during treatment and the best thing you can do is learn from it.
Try to take it a little slower. You already know you can do the 12mg dose so start there. Try going down my 1mg instead of 2 and see how you do.
I think your doing a great job and would hate to see you loose everything you have worked so hard for. Slow as you go and I KNOW you will do great.
Try some exercises with your thoughts when you have those feelings or thoughts of wanting to take more. Think of it like quitting smoking, find someting to do, something to distract you and see how it goes. It might help.
Have you tried journaling? I've heard that it does help some people and it gives you something to go back and read from time to time to see where you were and where you are now.
Good luck Blue Eyes, don't give up
Dee

Hello Dee,
Thank you for your response.
I guess I thought I was going slow, but in reality I'm learning that I might not have.
I ended up starting back at 14mg, since 12mg wasnt working when I attempted it the 2nd time. I've been back at 14mg since last Wednesday I think.
How long do you suggest I stay there before dropping back to 12mg?
I am basically still trying to find my lowest comfortable dose.
I'm so mad at myself for not sticking it out when I was at 10mg. I had a few uncomfortable days and thats when I started going back up.
I am learning though, to listen to my body. My doctor even said that.

Thanks again for responding.

I've been told by a lot of people when they try to lower their dose a second time. They had a harder time with it.
I don't know how long you should wait but I would make sure your body is adjusted to the new dose ( at least a few weeks) before lowering it again. Are you on the strips so that you can cut them and lower by 1mg instead of 2?
It may seem like it will take longer but that might be what it takes.
Whatever it takes to make sure you can lower to the lowest possible dose and be relatively comfortable at the same time.
I've read a lot of tapers and the ones that seem to do the best are the ones who did it the slowest.

Some people say to do it quick and get it over with. But I can't say I agree with that. Everyone is different that is the one thing to remember, what works for someone else may not work for you but listen to your body and it will tell you what to do.

I am not on the strips, but I have bought a pill splitter which works great,
I do break them in increments of 2mg though.
Today I had the "feeling" of uncomfortable in the late afternoon again. I start off taking 14mg and end up taking 16mg by the end of the day. This happened twice since being back on 14mg.
I see no reason to feel shitty, though, right? I'm paying a lot of money for this and I want it to work.
UGH.
I will go slow, I will go slow.
I'm not in any rush.
I was pissed off on Friday after my Dr Appt I went to CVS to get my script filled and AGAIN they dont have enough in stock to fill it ! AGAIN. This happened last month.
Really?
I don't know that I'll go back next month. I had to go back into my stockpile that I'm saving up and use that. It's already dwindling since my dose is all screwed up.

Your right, you shouldn't be feeling the way you are. Try split dosing and see if that works for you.
It maybe that your brain is telling you that you need something in the afternoon. You can even take a low dose baby aspirin in the afternoon and see how that goes. I take one every afternoon and the taste reminds me of Suboxone. Sometimes I even catch myself putting it under my tongue from habit.
As far as CVS goes there are two things you can do. Call them a couple of days ahead of time to make sure they will have your medication in stock or change pharmacies. If they want your business, they will accommodate you.
You can be firm with them, your are a customer and spend a lot of money in their establishment.
Try the split dose tomorrow and see how it goes.

Hello,
I just wanted to update on my dose problem.
I ended up back on 14mg after tapering down to 10mg to quickly.

Now, I am still on 14mg, and I know I've read that we have to listen to our bodies when tapering.
When is my body going to say something !!!!!

I dont want to sound as if I'm rushing this, again, I know I've read we arent suppose to rush a taper either.

I just wanted to throw out a question on how long did you stay on a dose before dropping down.
I only drop 2mg each time last time I did it.

I think I might have asked all these questions. I just need some assurance and support form you all !!!!

Thanks and I hope everyone reading is enjoying the road to recovery like I am !

Hey Blue Eyes it seems like I am going to be the only person to respond here. And I don't want to appear to be taking over all of the posts on the forum so I really do wish that someone besides me would speak up here.

From what I've been told about tapering, with the half life of Suboxone it would take a few days at least to start to feel any decrease in your dose. Once you feel that decrease, wait until your body gets used to the lowered dose, then reduce the dose again by 1 or 2mg. Personally because I would be wanting to play it safe, I myself would reduce by 1mg. Follow that rule for each decrease.

Someone please help out here. I'm sure Blue Eyes would like to hear from someone else other than me. What's your experience?

Hey Dee,

i really appreciate your comment, even if its the only one.

The problem I have with dropping my dose by 1mg is I have 8mg pills and I cut that up. How am I going to measure and cut down to 1mg ?

I will try that though and since I have a pill splitter, when I do cut them, it's pretty accurate but I never went that low.

I'll keep you posted.

More comments people !!! You heard Dee !

That's a GREAT idea.
I am going to do that tomorrow morning.
I will admit, I didn't know where you were going with the crushing part !! LOL

I'll let you know in the morning.

I will PM you, since no one else is interested , hows that????

However you want, is fine with me. I think others are interested but some people are comfortable in posting on an online forum.
The beauty of being online though, is that no one really knows who you are unless you tell them.
At any rate, I will look for your message.
Dee

I know this may be a little late to the game but maybe the post will help. Dee I think I have told you this in pm but I have taken my dose down to half of the original three strips in the last year. My dr. takes me down 1 strip a month now, we did start faster with going down 1 strip a week because neither me or my dr. was comfortable with 3 a day. I haven't experienced any withdrawal symptoms at all doing my taper this way, and when you think about it coming down 8mg a month is really nothing over the period of 30 days. We started the taper with the dr. telling me to try to save a strip from my 2 week dose so that if there was a problem I had a backup plan and he and I could adjust our plan from there. Once I came down to 2 strips he began to just taper off at the rate of 1 strip per month. That is a very slow taper and I have been completely comfortable every step of the way. I should say that I do attend counseling and I am very active in 12 step. I have found that my counseling and group work add a degree of accountability that I really need. I would encourage any of you to try the 12 step groups in your communities. I know that NA doesn't advocate maintenance medications, but you will find that many people there use them successfully. Hopefully in the future there will be support groups for medication assisted recovery, but for now, I suggest going to the ones available, using what you feel applies to your recovery and taking the rest with a grain of salt. If nothing else the step work does make you more self aware and helps you to develop coping skills, or it has in my case, and I made the first real friend I've had since elementary school in the groups. I have also found many like minded people that have helped me in my journey. One word of caution, until you find out how the group responds to the use of sub I would keep that to myself, just in case. In any case, I will help anyone in any way I can. I would have been here all along, but I honestly forgot the website.

[i][b]
Hi Monica,
I was a big part of AA/NA for over 7 yrs. Several years ago.
When I found Suboxone I had to loose AA/NA. I was told I wasn't clean,if I wanted to go to a meeting I could not share and do NOT pick up a chip.
Too bad that it's gotten that way b/c I learned alot fron the 12 step program.

Sadly for others that have never been a part of a 12 step can feel very out cast.
There is a forum with all the 12 step programs and if you mention Suboxone there they will say the same to you.

For me and me alone I felt if I could not be honest then I'm still hiding. I'm just thankful for all the years that I was involved and was a part of it. I've learned so much and use it every day.

It's very sad for anyone in need of support and they on Suboxone.

I hope one day there will be meetings with the 12 steps for Suboxone. I personally want to be able to speak freely.

I also read a post you wrote earlier about Suboxone is not enough for recovery. I couldn't agree more. Suboxone is a great part of it but counseling,groups,etc. are very important.

Marie

Hello Monica,

Its certainly not to late in the game for your comment. I totally appreciate it.

I do have a question however, when you say your tapered one strip a month. You mean an 8mg strip?
That's seems like a lot.
When I drop my dose, I have been doing it 2mg at a time. Usually a month or so apart. But I have bounced around somewhat and ended up starting over again.
I am now at 12mg.
When I started though, I was on the 8mg tablets. Now I am on the strips. I am still getting use to them. Im having trouble remembering what size is 4mg and what size is 2mg after I cut the initial 8mg strip.
Ideally I would like to be at 8mg right now (going on 6 months of treatment, but that hasnt worked out so well.

Marie,
I read what Monica also said about NA and she suggested if I went, not to mention I am on Suboxone. So based on what you said, I think that's good advice.
I might try that though because I am only on Suboxone and have yet to get into counseling.
Some of you know my niece just started on Suboxone and I think having her to support me and me support her, is a good thing.

I want to ask her to joing me in finding a meeting.

I have said this before there should be groups of people that meet that have our common thread of being on Suboxone and being drug free.

Thank you both for adding to this thread.

Blue Eyes,
For me coming down 8mg a month has been no problem. Its only about .25 mg a day. Granted it doesn't exactly work that way but with the long half life of Sub it seems to balance out. Just have to play with it a little. I take the 8 mg strips and if you look there are three N8 logos on each strip to guide you. I would first cut the strip n half then cut through the middle of the logos to cut the quarters. I hope you understand what I am trying to say. Cut vertically across the strip in half first then cut horizontally across the two halfs and that will help cause the quarters won't have full logos.

I am glad to hear that your neice has started as well. My mom is still in active addiction (I did my first h with her at 14 but that is another story for another time). I wish that she would try treatment but when she did she stopped in 2 weeks and headed back to the pain mgmt dr. I can only hope that she will see how much better my life is and want the same for herself before it's too late. I have had to limit my contact with her and that breaks my heart.

I hope this helps you some. If there is anything else I can do please let me know, anything I can do to help someone battle this horrible disease makes me feel like I didn't walk thru hell for nothing. Good luck and God Bless.

Monica

Blue Eyes,
I may have forgot to mention that I was on Sub previously and had put together some clean time without then relapsed for a short time before I started on Sub again. My dr. is also a recovering addict and he was treated successfully with Sub over the course of 3 years now has 4 off meds and is very successful. The reason he started my taper almost immediately is because I had accumulated so much clean time in the recent past. Take your time and don't rush it. I am always in control and I always discuss any doubts I have and I also have a couple extra strips in case I have symptoms between visits. My dr. is fully aware of my stockpile and I did that at his urging as well. I can't stress how much having a completely open relationship with my provider has been. My first provider was much stricter and I felt like he tried to legislate recovery to me and I feel like this time around there has been no pressure, just good suggestions.

I also have a decent stockpile set aside for when I might need.
My doctor is very laid back. I have a post somewhere on here where I talk about him.

We havent talked about the dose more than him asking, how much I am taking. He basically leaves it up to me.
I just know I'm not ready to be where I thought I would be at this point.
But that's ok.

Hello,

Figured I post at where I am now since this thread started with me struggling to get to a low dose where I thought I should be.

I am 12mg most days. I am still feeling a little uncomfortable in the afternoon, but I'm just working through that.
I am really trying not to take a little more just to feel better, because that's what screwed me up in the first place.
I find when I'm busy at work, the feeling passes before I've had time to take something.

Thanks for the advice I got, every little bit helps !!

I am on my 3rd day taking 12mg successfully. I kept whimping out and taking that extra 2 mg in the afternoon when I thought I needed it. Of course, I really didnt need it ! But by today, the 3rd day, the half life is up and/or passed so I should be good.

I'm still getting use to the film. Sometimes looking at it after I cut it, I can't tell if it's 2mg or 4mg. Ugh.

I'm so glad we have a some new members. I hope they actively take part in the forum. I think being in constant contact with people that are going through the same thing really helps.

[i][b]
I really wish I had started out on a low dose. I had just had Major surgery and needed pain mgmt.,so I was on a high dose. My Provider has been slowly bringing me down. She wants me to come down to 16mg. a day. She's been coming down a 1/4 of a strip each month. I'm now down to 24mg. I know that is high,but,I was at 32mg. for a year. Probably way too long to be on such a high dose. It's been more of a fear than it has been anything I feel differently.
For me,I don't think I would have been able to drop so qucikly as Blue Eyes has so soon. So,I say,good for you,honey. As Dee always says,Less is More. So true.

I think also,I was and still not in no hurry to get off Suboxone. I think about it often but I know I'm not ready. I don't know if or when I will be either.
I don't ever want to return to where I was.

I hope everyone is enjoying there weekend.

Marie

Hi Marie,

I have pain management issues also, but alot of the pain I was feeling when I was using was due to the pain pills themselves. Between working out and being on Suboxone, I feel alot better, pain wise.

The of my pain is if I sleep on my back, I wake up in extreme pain. but it wears off within 15 min. of me being awake.
It honestly doesnt feel like I dropped so quickly but, I felt after that first day I was on it. I just sort of started at 16mg and never tried to go lower.
I have no clue when I'll be off. Im not sure my provider will be around longer than 2yrs more, he claims he wants to retire and move to China ( I posted about this) But, there are so many providers in my area, I'd have no problem finding another.

I had mentioned also in a prior post about my niece starting on Suboxone about 10 days ago. She told me her Dr told her and I quote " you should be off in about 3 months"
I almost choked. I immediately told her, NO NO NO ! Don't listen to that, there is no way in 3 months will you be ready to get off. I know her, she's related to me ! We used together. We we've got a long history of using.
She was so relieved that I told her, I will get you another Dr is does this to you.

Crazy, that some Doctors just Detox with this.

[i][b]
My pain is not nearly as bad as I thought it would be either. I'd been told that but didn't believe it.

I'm so glad your neice has you to give her advise. I don't think 3 months is long enough for anyone. She indeed needs a new Provider and soon.

I would hate to think of my Provider leaving. It took me a few to find her. Trust me,there are some crazy Providers out there. Some know very little about addiction. That is a very big problem I have with those just writing the script but really know nothing about addiction. I remember the first time I tried to get cleaned,years ago. My Counselor was not in recovery and I did not want him to be my counselor. We had quite a few run inns over it. I didn't understand how he "thought" he could tell me how I feel and how I'm to act. That didn't last long.

Marie

I totally agree with that !
How can someone give advice and guidance for addiction and yet never even went through withdrawls for themselves. I've even been on Forums where the Mod was never an addict and therefore never even on Suboxone!! But there they were handing out advice like it was halloween candy !!!

It's as bad as my sister who's told me more than once " I don't see what's so hard, just stop taking the pills"!!!!!
She will soon find out though, because rumor running through my family that she is now using the same DOC that I
had, even worse !!!
This is part of the reason why I havent spoken to her in months. In fact the last time I did speak to this particular sister
was the day I was inducted with Suboxone, she called me up and said "I'm not sure you know what your doing, you have to be in
full withdrawls, you know , and anyway, that stuff doesnt even work"

Oh, yes she did.

Again, yet another reason I don't talk to her.


I don't know why I got into all that stuff !

[i][b]
That's why very few ppl k ow that I'm on Suboxone. So many are so free to give advise on something they know nothing about. My son actually believes it's like Herion. Friggin Herion,where he got that from I have no idea.

My therapist had said to me that there was no need foranyone to know and those that do should only be the one's with positiv attitudes.

My space bar is stuck again.l

I'll write more tomorrow.