MY FIRST POST..AND IM SO SCARED

This is my very first post: My name is Tammy and I am addicted to vicodin. I take 10-12 750s a day. I have a script for sub and plan on starting them soon. I have so many questions. Will i go thru w/d? Those things kill me. I have tried going ct a few times. The rls and not being able to sleep is hell. What do I expect? I am on the films. I have read posts on here that you dont sleep and feel like crap. If thats the case y am I getting on them? I want more than anything in the world to be drug free. I dont have any health issues thank god so I dont need em. I take them to get thru the day. I cant imagine my life without pills. I have lost a good job and almost ruined my marriage. I tried to attend an NA mtg only to find more drugs than people because they were court ordered to be there. I am making this stand on my own. I want to quit..NOW. I live everyday looking, counting wondering when my guys gonna get back to town with them. Its not fair to me or my son that I continue to live like this. I dont have any support because I hide my addiction. I am the strong one in my family...so they think. I will attend mtgs 24/7 and work as hard to stay clean or harder than I do to find them, which is a full-time job. I really need someone to talk too. I have so many questions and I am so scared to start this medication. I have heard it works if you want it too. I NEED SUPPORT AND ENCOURAGEMENT...I FEEL TOTALLY ALONE.

Hi Tammy,

Welcome and please know your NOT ALONE.
Please don't be nervous ok? If you already went to the Dr, i'm assuming he wants you to induce yourself at home?
Did he give you instructions?
If not, we can help you.

I will contact you if you want, since you put up your number.

You can start Suboxone as early as tomorrow, dont even worry about the withdrawal, its not all that bad, and just think you'll feel better very soon. When you say you have the script, I'm assuming you filled it? If not, when did you get it ? Those things do expire after one month, so please take that into consideration.
I dont know where you read about feeling like crap, or not sleeping. I deal with none of that. I have felt great from day one and I also sleep great. Not waking up in withdrawal and craving pills is the best feeling.

Please relax, we can help you !

blue,

I talked with her earlier today and told her that I had felt great from day 1 as well. I told her to take a half strip first, as it didn't seem that her dr. had given very clear instructions. I also told her that for the time being she would probably have to dose more than once until she could replace the habit of dosing several times a day. I don't give medical advice as a rule, but I think it's pretty standard for inductions to start low and then add more if needed. If not it should be as suboxone has a ceiling effect and we all know that sometimes the same results can be achieved with 4mg as 32mg, since sub doesn't create new receptors it kinda depends on how many of them you need to fill as to what your stabilizing dose will be. Starting low and adding lets us find the lowest dose to meet our needs. Just my experience, not medical advice as I'm not a dr.

I think I know where she has read about all of these w/d symptoms and as I told her on the phone I think most of the horror stories we read on the internet come from people who have either abused or never used suboxone. Suboxone, like methadone, has gotten a bad rap simply b/c people don't use it appropriately. I have had the privilege of working with many people through their inductions and I can honestly say that no one I have worked with has had any major problems once their dose is stabilized. Most of the time once people are leveled out they have no symptoms at all. What few symptoms I had while stabilizing my dose were nothing compared to cold turkey w/d, and like I told her on the phone, I was so relieved not to have to be consumed with getting and using and finding the way and means to get more, that I really didn't notice any withdrawals. I actually posted a thread over on another site called soberrecovery.com and asked if anyone had anything but horror stories to share, because I knew that I couldn't be the only person that felt like Suboxone saved my life.

Tammy, I hope that you will read more here as you will find that largely we have been successful with using Suboxone as a treatment tool. You have my number and if you need me you can call. Same with everyone here, if you want help there is a really good group of people here who are willing to help you in any way they can.

Much love my friend,
Monica

Monica,
Your advice was exactly as I would have told her.

Tammy,
I know if you follow Monica's advice, by this time tomorrow night, you will be feeling
like the OLD you again. No cravings, No withdrawal. Like Monica said, start low and
build up, once your receptors are filled you stop adding. You've reached your ceiling.


Looking forward to talking with you.
You will be fine ! Don't worry !

Tammy,

Let us know how your doing. If your ready this morning to start dosing with your Suboxone.

This should be an exciting time for you. Your getting your life back. No more chasing pills and being consumed with pills.

Please let us know what's going on

Hi Tammy,
Welcome to the forum!
You've gotten some wonderful information from Monica and Blue Eyes. The best always come from someone who is sharing their own experience whether it be from helping someone else or actually have that experience themselves.

Like Monica said, you want to start with a low dose of Suboxone. With most drugs it is that the higher the dose may be the best but not with Suboxone. It is completely opposite. I know that 2 or 4 mg may not sound like much at all but actually it is. You will feel better going low.
Horror stories are everywhere on the net, the more you read the worse they will get. Someone always has a friend that had a friend who did this or took that. Or someone else read that someone else said that.
Listen to those who have honestly been there. You can usually weed out the bulls*it if you read between the lines. Weeding sometimes takes practice but it gets easier with time.

Please post and let us know how your doing today. Did you start your induction? What did your doctor tell you when you went to see him/her? Did they tell you anything about your treatment or make up a treatment plan with you? Any therapy suggestions in the works to help you deal with the baggage that addiction leaves behind?
A lot of questions I know, but only to get to know you better and how to help you.
Always,
Dee

I've also found that most forums on the internet only have people bitching and blaming one thing or another for their problems. Someone goes and takes suboxone or methadone, does nothing else about their problems and then when their life falls apart, they blame the medication. Nothing cures addiction, and simply taking a pill is never going to keep us in recovery. I wish that people would realize this and reach out when things are going well so that there is a support system in place for when things are falling apart. Our new member did the right thing by continuing to seek information until she found a place that she could hear something positive, but I wonder how many people read all of these horror stories and head back out thinking that there is no use in trying if they're still going to be living in hell anyway.

I'm so glad that there are people who are willing to share their positive experiences and are willing to work to change their lives instead of bitching, moaning, and playing the blame game. I'm sorry to rant, but I get so sick of all of the "sub made me worse", "methadone is the devil" crap that's out there. I had a horrible experience with methadone, but it wasn't because methadone is a bad drug. It was because I wasn't ready to change my life. I hadn't received the gift of desperation yet. I had to go back out there and get a little more punishment before I could get better. If you're willing to work for it, methadone or sub are wonderful tools, but if all you want to do is sit on your rear and take something then nothing changes.

Good evening everyone,

I was really hoping to come on here and see a response from the OP (Tammy)
Although I've heard from Monica that she induced with her help, we took the time
to respond to a very frantic post and one would think she'd head back here sooner
rather than later to see if she's gotten any responses and support.
I know the first few months after I induced I needed a lot of reassurance from others, that
what I was doing was ok.

Like Monica said, Suboxone isnt a magic pill, where you take it, and poof your addiction is gone.
It doesnt work like that.
We all have to work at our recovery. Everyday.
I would love to see Tammy show up at chat tomorrow night. Even better, I'd love to see "loveandlight" and see how she's doing. After all, she's going at it alone.

Recovery isnt something that we "finish". It's on-going people and the success rate is much better for people that had support !!! When I said to my daughter that this forum really helps me in my recovery. She responded with,
"I thought you recovered already"
Again, IT'S ON-GOING !

I must say that I am also a little disappointed. I feel this way whenever we hear from a new member who needs help and doesn't come back to check in a let us know how they are or even stop by to say, hey I'm okay.
This is what sucks about caring.
And I worry because sadly since I have been on this forum I have had the experience that more often then not when people go into recovery and things are going good they tend to move on past the support that got them to where they are in the first place, things start to go downhill and they wonder what happened.
Recovery is a full time job and not something to be taken lightly. So when you find a place or support people who are willing to be there for you hang on to it. Don't blow it off thinking things are okay and it isn't needed any more because- It IS needed more than ever.
I am grateful to have the support that I have, the people that I have met and the knowledge of knowing that what I need to do is keep my recovery out front, number one. Everything else is 2nd. It has to be.
I've learned from my mistakes and remind myself of what can happen. I don't have another relapse in me. I've had to many and honestly don't know how I have survived them all.

I do hope our new member will come on to let us know how she is. Just a hello or I'm okay is all it takes. We do worry about those we care about.

Hey ladies. I texted the new member and told her she had responses so hopefully she will check in here. She said today she is feeling well. Like you all I hope that she will stay in touch. In my honest opinion not staying in touch is the reason that there are so many horror stories out there. People get things going in the right direction and then the wonderful disease we all have starts to sneak back into our head by telling us that we're ok. We don't need to do the footwork. We are different from all of those people in 12 step groups. etc.etc.etc. Then eventually when the monkey realizes our defenses are gone and our guard is down, it attacks full force again, and we have no support in place. It is so much easier to ask for help in bad times when we stay connected to each other and our own recoveries in good times. I feel so much better knowing that no matter what I have people both here and in the real world who truly want what is best for me. Working my recovery program has lead me to having honest friendships for the first time in my adult life. For me in my experience my meetings, talking to you all here, helping other addicts, those things have meant much more to my growth and stability in recovery and as a member of the human race than taking suboxone has. Suboxone has allowed my mind to be freed from my obsession so that I can work a program effectively....and the fact is that studies show that both suboxone and abstinence have a 95-99% relapse rate at one year...so that means 5-1% stay in recovery. If the two are combined that figure climbs to about 10%. Besides, doing the work I do toward my recovery is a whole lot easier than the work I did to maintain my habit, and it's definitely more rewarding.

Hey guys I am so sorry for not posting earlier..here I go crying already. I induced Friday at midnight with Monicas help. Lets say I got my life back. I feel like a million dollars. I have spend alot of time on phone and texting with Monica. Monica, you are a true friend and a wonderful inspiration to me. I am doing awesome. I have had a tiny headache but nothing I cant handle. I am eating sleeping and omg so loving the sober life. I am the old me truly the old me. I could go on and on and on.... I will be on here everyday. Sorry I havent been on til now. I have been outside sitting took a walk and slept from 12:30 last night til 11:15 today!!!!!!! I woke up feeling great and wasnt sweating and/or looking for pills. OMg the time I have on my hands is unreal. I am planning on loooking to start the 12 step program in my town. I am not sure where they have them or where to look, but guess what I will find em. I feel like a brand new person. I have tons of energy and have went and visited people which I wasnt doing. I love my new life and am staying this way. I am going to live day to day..thanks Monica. I am looking forward to a clean tomorrow but I have to make it through today first. After talking to Monica on the phone for over an hour, I learned I can do this. That lady believed in me, she gave me the courage to do this. I was so scared and she stayed on the phone til I had no more questions. I know its only been 2 days but 2 days to me is worth celebrating. I took 1/2 when I got up and 1/4 at 7 pm and im done until morning. I cant say ty enough to you guys for supporting me and giving me the advise and encouragement to save my life. I look forward to the live chat so will someone text me and tell me when it is and remind me so I can be sure and be on here. I am going to to bed, looking forward to waking up which I havent said that in a very long time. Thanks again girls and guys I cant do this alone. For those of you on the fence about this medicine dont hesitate let me be the first to say I have had no w/d and no desire to touch a pill again. Good Night everyone talk soon

Good morning everyone...I slept good last night. I woke up feeling great. Today is my first day back to work. I am a little nervous considering I work at a pharmacy. I can do this though. I also have alot to do before work thats why I got on here now. I will be on again after work. Dont forget to remind me when the next live chat is..I am very excited for that. We need to have them more often esp. for the newbies lol. Have a great day everyone, its a whole new day for me!!!

Hello Tammy

I'm really happy to read that your induction went well and that Monica was able
to talk you through and get you calm.

Chat is every Monday and Thursday 7:30 EST.
Not sure what Time Zone your in.

Looking forward to seeing you there.

Listen, if, for some reason, those days and times dont work for your schedule, please let me know. We can certainly try and work something out. Add another day for instance.

Hope you had a great day!

Hi Tammy,
I am glad that everything seems to be going well for you. How did it go for you at work? Blue has said in her posts about the chat that if at anytime we have a member who needs another day or time for chat she will take care of it so if Monday or Thursday is not good for you just let her know.
We do want everyone to be able to participate. As it is now we have 2 evenings a week scheduled for chat. One thing you can do as well is look for some meetings in your area, support groups and the like. Please don't let the bad experience of a past meeting keep you from trying again. There are some good people out there just as there are bad. Some want to change and others don't.

Be one of the ones that does and can.

I am really looking forwarding to hearing more from you. Keep up posted here on the forum as to how you are doing okay.
We are always here for you, you are not alone.
Dee

I told Tammy that when I started in NA here it was a mess, but I've worked my butt off with my sponsor and it's better. If you don't like what you see in a fellowship, get some time under your belt and step up and be of service. That's what I did and we have a great fellowship now. Rather progressive actually b/c we don't judge anyone for any recovery path.

Hi everyone I am still plugging away and staying sober..one dy at a time. Yesteday was so rough. I had a bad spell in the shower called Monica who was a god send and spent an hour of her time on the phome with me. Thanks, girl couldnt do it without you. The rest of the day was just as bad. I cried alot. One bad day of soberity is better than the better day being high..learned that from a new great friend. I see my counselor tomorrow @ 11:00 was supposed to go today and woke up with a terrible headache. I really learned I need the medicine more than I thought. I was trying to ween myself off of it. I am so afraid of becoming addicted to it. Again, after a long talk with Monica Im not ready its only been since Friday. This is a big learning curve for me. I swear I have never felt better in my life though. I came home from work, made a fire with my son and we hade smores together. He is 22 so I sat down and told him I messed up again and started using and Friday I started a new med and so far so good. He said mom I noticed when I came home Sunday you was so friendly and when you went out to visit people I thought wow she never goes anywhere..lol. So, I am going to take the meds like I should, get into 12 step program and work my hinny off to be the best mom I can be. This boy needs me and I been gone long enough.
I work evenings, is there any way we can have a chat during the day say like at 10 a.m. please? If only one day a week. That would be awesome. I am going to sit and watch Days of our lives and relax.
Thank you Jesus for another sober day and thanks to you guys for all the kind words and support. I couldnt do it without you. Talk to you tomorrow and I let you know how my visit goes!!! Good night everyone, stay safe..and sober!!!

Hello,

You brought up a lot of issues.

First the headaches,

one of the easiest things to check is making sure you're drinking enough water. Opioids in general can suppress the thirst mechanism and even slight dehydration can cause headaches.

If that doesn't work, you can try spitting out what's leftover after the pill dissolves to see if that helps. That works for those who have a sensitivity to the naloxonein the Suboxone.

Second the afraid of getting addicted.
There is a difference between physical dependence and being addicted.
Physical dependence is normal and expected and not a reason for treatment, it means you have withdrawal if you stop the medication abruptly, many medications do this.
Addiction is an uncontrollable compulsion, that ruins lives, it is the result of abnormal brain adaptations and is a disorder.

I've never heard anyone get addicted to Suboxone

Now, as far as the crying. When an addiction goes into remission it uncovers other issues that had been covered up by the addiction. So you'd really have to take a good look at why you think your crying and address it.

As far as the chats. I could talk to our Administrator about starting a weekend chat maybe. But as it stands now, we have it twice a week on Monday and Thursday. What is your work schedule like?

I dont think you should dwell on the medication at this point in your recovery. Your barely a week into it and your talking about weening off. You havent even stabilized on it yet. Let the medication do what it's meant to do, your body will tell you when to lower your dose and even when to stop all together.

Hope some of my tips helps. Stay in touch, its very important for your recovery.

Thank you alot for you advice. I have decided to let the medicine work and only focus on my recovery. I met with my counselor today and I start the 12 step program on Monday. I am a little confused..she said while I am in the program I should also attend meetings. I thought the program was meetings?? I am going to look at my paper to find available meetings everyday. As far as my work schedule I usually work 2-9. I have been working extra hours to cover someone who is out on maternity leave. I just thought if we could have a chat during the day it might help. I really enjoy the comments and advise I get from you guys. I really take all to heart. Please dont be afraid to tell me the truth, right now that is what I need. I had an awesome day. I am starting to feel things and I guess the program/meetings will help me to deal with them. Hope everyone has a great evening and a good day tomorrow. I will try and jump on for a few minutes just to see how everyone is doing. Im still trying to learn the site and read new post but can seem to find them lol. See ya soon.

Tammy,

I agree with most everything blue said. Water is a good idea. Headache can often be a side effect of the Suboxone and if that's the case from my experience and the experience I've observed in most others it passes after you get your dose stabilized. As for the crying, like blue said and like I told you on the phone, you will have good days and bad days. I think it's b/c our emotions are coming back, and it could be your disease trying to trigger you to use especially if you used to dose when you were upset. It could be any number of things and getting into either 12 step groups or some type of counseling will help you learn to identify what triggers these emotions and to learn to cope with them in healthy ways.

Really the only thing that I disagree with Blue on is that the naloxone itself may be causing your headaches. According to The Clinical Guidelines for the Use of Buprenorphine in the Treatment of Opiate Addiction, publised by SAMSHA, buprenorphine in and of itself is a blocker for most full agonist opiates (Introduction p.6). Also when suboxone is taken sublingually, as directed, the small amount of naloxone availble should not interfere with the desired effects of buprenorphine(Introduction p.. The naloxone is included as a deterrent to abuse of sub by injection(Executive Summary p. xviii). If Suboxone is dissolved and injected by an individual...the increased bioavailability of nalxone....should percipitate and opiod withdrawal syndrome (Introduction, page 9. All of the medical information in this paragraph came from the book mentioned in the second sentence, and it is not intended to be medical advice or a substitute for what your prescribing physician tells you. I just included the information to clarify the actual purpose and effects of naloxone. I am not a doctor and I just copied information directly from the aforementioned book.

Since the naloxone in Suboxone is absorbed very little by the vein under their toungue if the patient is using it correctly, I doubt that the naloxone is the cause of the headaches you're experiencing, but like I said I'm not a doctor. If the headaches don't end within a couple of weeks, or if they get to the point where you can't function normally b/c of them I would contact my dr. I do know that headaches are a side effect listed in the patient information leaflet that you should be given with your prescription at the pharmacy.

I hope this helps, but the most important thing is for you to remember you are not alone in this. We are all here for you. Like I've told you, stay connected to other recovering addicts and work on you while you're on the suboxone and eventually you will be able to come off of the sub and live a life completely free of opiates, if that's what you want and if your dr agrees it's in your best interest. You were talking about detoxing off very fast and from most everything I can read, that is not a good idea in an outpatient setting. From what I can find out the only way detox with buprenorphine is very effective is if the patient is detoxed and then continues in some type of residential treatment.

For some reason there is a smiley showing in the first paragraph. The reference should say (Introduction, page 9

And your therapist probably means you are in the suboxone program. Most people who go to 12step meetings refer to their chosen fellowship as the program. I'm glad you're doing well and I'm very proud of you.

Good morning,
Monica I got the smiley thing. It came up because of the ( and the : being too close together, put them together and you get the smiley. :+)=

Like Blue, the whole time I have been taking Suboxone I have been told that headaches are caused by the naloxone in the Suboxone. So when a patient complains of frequent headaches after starting Suboxone, the provider usually will not in all cases but some will switch the patient over to Subutex.
My own provider has done this with a few of her patients. One had them so bad that he could not function but once switched they stopped. She has kept him tested to make sure he is taking his meds and not diverting them though as a precaution.

It does make sense though when you think about the small amount of naloxone that goes into your system when taken properly. There are cases of patients who are hyper sensitive to naloxone but I imagine those cases are few.
I just never thought about it as it is what I've always been told. I am not very well versed on the whole bio availability of the medication and I should be. I can't seem to hold it all within my brain though. Somethings, once in are retained but others, once in are back out again.

Tammy it will take some time to get used to the medication. Even though you started taking Suboxone last week you are still in what is called the induction stage. However long this stage lasts depends on the individual.
Make sure you take your medication at the same time everyday. Personally me, I would try to get to where you are taking your daily dose in the mornings though instead of evenings. I can't take it too late in the day or it interferes with my sleep.
Usually your are started in the doctor's office in the mornings and are dosed once per day. Once per day helps in that it helps keep us from that schedule of all day dosing like when in active addiction.
For a lot of people this is a struggle, getting used to once a day. For me it was easier when I started with Suboxone because I had been on Methadone for four years previously and had already gotten used to dosing once a day in the mornings before work.

It helped me to retrain my brain. Give it some time. Once you are settled in on your dose it gets better, it really does.

As for "The Program" there are a lot of different programs. It may be they have a 12 step program there where you attend counseling and she may mean that you should also attend outside meetings. Check with her to make sure of what she is talking about.
Blue works during the day as does most of our other members. I work from home. My work is this forum and out 2 websites. I can do a chat with you during the daytime hours and maybe if one is started some of our other members who cannot make the evening chat's can come to the earlier one. Check to see when you are to attend your meetings and let me know. We can go from there.

All of this may seem overwhelming right now and it takes time to get used to the new you. Take it slow and easy, the rest will follow.
Best wishes to ya,
Dee

K thought I would jump on here before I go to work. I am in real need of a nap right now..lol. I am loving this leeping thing. I work 4-9 so I am going to miss the chat. I think I am going to start with a full one in the morning. I am taking a half in the morning and then in my opinion taking a quarter a couple times a day, which Im sure is not a good habit. I am just trying to see what works for me. I have to go to the clinic tomorrow. Ok I gotta get woke up and freshen up my make up and get ready for work. Have a good evening everyone..stay strong.

Tammy,
Give yourself time to adjust to your dose then you can worry about dosing once a day. I worry that since you're in the habit of dosing with the vicoden multiple times that you may end up putting yourself in a corner if you don't give yourself some time. Remember what we talked about. The lowest dose possible is best and you do eventually want to try to get to dosing once a day, but you don't have to do it tomorrow. In my experience it is best to give yourself time to develop new activities and new coping skills to use around your normal dose time before you try to go to one dose. If you try to single dose too soon, from what I've seen you will end up taking more suboxone than you need to stop the w/ds and that's a waste. Just stop rushing things and give yourself time to heal. Most drs recommend you dose multiple times a day. Some don't ever even recommend that you change to once, but my experience has been that dosing once a day eliminates that clock watching thing, but only after you've replaced the habit of taking something multiple times daily. I did it by eliminating one dose at a time until I got to one dose a day, not by just going from 4 doses down to one. Don't rush it. You don't want to end up causing yourself to take more than you need.

Let me qualify my post by saying that I am only sharing my experience and what I have witnessed with others. I am not a medical professional. I am just one addict trying to help another addict.

I have to go to Toledo tomorrow at 2 can I call u then and chat?? I am learning more here than from a dr. I think its best to learn from experience anyway. I would never hold anyone accountable for their opinion. Thanks alot!! Hopefully talk to u tomorrow.

Hi Tammy,

Havent heard from you since Thursday, wondering if your doing ok.

Let us know how you are when you get a chance ~

Thank !

Hi guys thought Id jump on here a minute before I go to bed. I have been so busy. I was off today. Went to the fair with my son and came home, cleaned house and sat on the porch. Today is day 9 for me. I swear I never thought id be able to say that. I am feeling great. Im staying busy and staying positive. I start my meetings in the morning at 10. I am off Tuesday. I am so looking forward to the chat. I have had a few cravings, nothing too bad. I am taking my medicine like I should. I am sleeping well. I actually got a phone call today from the drug guy asking me if I was good because I havent called him. I said Im great and no offense but I wont be needing you any longer. I was a little anxious saying that but god did it feel good. I also have told my story to 2 guys and one went to the clinic on wednesday and the other is going tomorrow. It really felt good to tell the story and be telling the truth. I have said so many time Im clean when really I was lying throught my teeth. I am going into this meeting to listen and pay attention. I also am attending a different meeting on Tuesday @ 2. I kinda just wanna see where I fit in if that makes sense. Thanks so much for checking on me. I had to make time to check in tonight because u guys are all of my support right now and I really need to have you. I will continue to update and text Monica as she has been a true friend. Thanks again and good night to all. Im really looking forward to Tuesday night, talk to you tomorrow.