How Long can I stay on Suboxone

Subject: How Long can I stay on Suboxone Sat 27 Dec 2008, 6:35 pm

One of the biggest questions people have is " How long can I expect to stay on Suboxone".
The length of time that you are on this wonderful medication will depend on YOU the patient. Some doctors tell their patients that they only prescribe Suboxone for 6 months. But that's not right. You can't put a time limit on your recovery....period. If your doctor is pushing you to get off of the program within a six month time period. Talk to him. If your not ready, tell him/her that. And if they still insist that they will only treat you for a limited time period. Let us know, and we will try to help you locate a doctor that is right for you.
This is your recovery, and not anyone elses, you should never be pressured into doing anything your not ready to do.
Dee

Subject: Re: How Long can I stay on Suboxone Sat 27 Dec 2008, 11:08 pm

Hi Dee. I had no idea that it was only recently that you had an accident. I knew you had injuries but thought it was from a while back. I think you are very inspirational, Barbara as well, with your endless caring of others. I remember that lovely feeling of not being so self-obsessed. Its very slowly coming back.

My doctor said he was happy to keep me on sub for the rest of my life if I had to. He said he believes that it gives addicts their lives back and so why risk busting if you don't feel ready. I'm not even going to think about being on sub for the rest of my life. But I am happy to stay where I am for the moment.

I'm having a hard time with my teenage son Angus these last few days. He is 18 and has a girlfriend and is sooooo terminally cool. Since we lost our properties and our comfy lifestyle four years ago, Gus has become really nasty to both Neil and I.
At the moment he is ruling the roost so to speak. Any ideas on how to tackle him? Evil or Very Mad

. That's how angry I get with him.

I hope of haven't bored you stiff Dee. Have a good day no night. I think it is about 10pm where you are. It's 2pm and a whole day later for me. Cheers. Mez. X

Subject: Re: How Long can I stay on Suboxone Sat 27 Dec 2008, 11:38 pm

Hi Mez,
Wow!
The whole time difference thing amazes me. Just think my today is your yesterday. It's almost like looking into the future. Don't tell me what you see. LOL

Seriously about your son. How old is he? I'm sorry I had to go back and read that part. Your son is 18 and he is living in YOUR home am I right? If that is the case, well in any case. Your home is your home. You are allowing him to live there. It should be yours and Neils rules and not what Angus says. Yes, he is probably angry that everything was lost, but that still doesn't give him the right to disrespect you. No child should ever disrespect their mom.

You and Neil can always tell him, that if he doesn't like the way things are and cannot respect your rules he can leave. I'm sorry, but I am angry. Mad

I feel as though I have come to know you over the past couple of weeks ( almost Smile

) I admire your strength and determination to suceed in your recovery. His behavior right now can be a trigger to you if it is allowed to continue. I will keep you and Neil in my prayers. If you need me, I'am here just let me know. Feel free to come here and vent, cry laugh, or what ever makes you feel better. That's what we are all here for.... Each other.
Yours
Dee

Admin Number of posts : 95 Registration date : 2008-11-06

Hi Mez,

I just wanted you to know I can relate to what you are dealing with. I will definitely keep you in my prayers. I totally agree with Dee's advice and I can understand exactly how angry you can get. I have a son too but mine is married now but I do remember those days. It's very late here 2:38 AM Monday morning and I should be in in bed but when I seen your post I just had to let you know I really feel for you and I know how difficult it must be because I have been there.

My son's father died when He was close to being a teenager and our lifestyle changed dramatically. I believe I shared some of my story on here but I didn't really talk about the trouble I had with my son. We lived in a two-story house with a basement and his bedroom was downstairs in the basement but the basement was finished and was separate from his room. The basement had a pool table, a bar and stero system and he had a televison in his room. It was the best because we had bought most of it while we were in Germany and it was much cheaper then. You could walk out the back door to a pool and we had a fenced in yard.

He had the best of everything and usually all his friends were at our house. I was attending college at the time and I only worked part-time and my husband was in the military. He took sick suddenly with flu-like symptoms and died within one month after He was diagnosed with Leukemia. We didn't have any money saved or any insurance unless He died on active duty. Of course, I couldn't afford the house and we had to move and I was only working part-time at the college and all of this turned my life upside down. I couldn't even find someone to rent to me because I had no income and no rental history.

To get back to the point our life style changed immensely and if my parents had not helped me I would have had to quit college and then I don't know where we would be today. I had to move into a cheap rental apartment and my parents only sent me $400.00 a month and I worked part-time for minimum wage which then I believe was $3.25 an hour. We barely made it each month and we didn't have any money for extras.

The first year wasn't so bad but the second one was awful. I know it wasn't easy for Him because He had lost his Father and his lifestyle all at once. We didn't live in the area anymore where most fo his friends lived and He found out many of them didn't want anything to do with Him after He lost everything. They were not really his friends they were just using Him because of the pool and other material things they didn't have. I had to sell most all of our possessions because they wouldn't fit where we moved and it wasn't the best neighborhood.

What made it really bad was I didn't have much time to spend with Him either. I was attending Pharmacy School and it wasn't easy and I worked part-time and once I came home I cooked for us and then I had to study to pass. I did the best I could to try and explain to Him things would get better after I graduated and I told Him I understood how difficult it was on Him. He actually was on the school lunch program because I couldn't afford to pay for his lunch every day and this really embarrased Him. I did cut Him some slack because I knew the adjustment was not eay for Him. He got so angry with me once because I failed to pick Him up at the house and take Him to his Friend's House that He actually put his fist through the wall and it left a hugh hole in it I knew I would have to pay for.

I worked on the budget and cut everywhere I could so I could take Him to the Mall on Friday night. We would have Dinner out and I would give him $10.00 to go to the game room. Sometimes He would go out with his friend to a movie and I would give Him the money for the food and movie. I tried to make this possible for Him every Friday night and our relationship improved somewhat. I don't remember now what happened but He came Home one Friday afternoon from school and I didn't have the money. I only had $3.00 dollars and He had made plans to go to the movie with his friends. I really thought He would understand because I had gone without lunch and many other things to provide that night for Him.

I told Him I didn't have but $3.00 dollars but He could have it and He turned to me and said something I do not want to repeat because it really hurt me. He basically told me I could take the $3.oo and ---- it up my ---. I got so angry and I totally lost it and I was on the phone at the time He said it to me and I took the phone and I started hitting Him with it but He finally managed to get out the door and I told Him He was grounded and if He left the house He wasn't getting back in. I told Him I understood it was hard for Him but I was doing everything I could to make it so we could have a better life and He wasn't going to talk to me like that in my own house. I told Him if He thought it was easier out on the streets to go ahead and He left.

I just went totally to pieces and then I blamed myself because I had lost it and started hitting Him. I got in the car and went trying to find Him but couldn't. I finally broke down and called my Mother because I didn't know what to do and my Mother told me to pack his bag and put it on the porch and lock all the doors and windows and go to bed. She told me not to let Him until He apologized to me and agreed not to ever disrespect me again. The hours that followed was the most difficult ones of my whole life. How could I sleep?

I turned off all the lights but left the front porch light on and his bag was packed sitting there with a note telling Him what was required of Him to get back in. He didn't even show up until midnight and I was about to call the police I was so worried and I could hear Him try to open the door but He couldn't get in because I had the door locked. I heard him when He went around to the back and tried and it took all I could do not to run and open the door and tell Him I was sorry. He tried the windows with no success and then He left.

It almost killed me not to run after Him because I was not only worried about Him but I was afraid He would report me as He had told me when He left earlier He would do. I started thinking what if they find me guilty of child abuse because I knew I hit Him hard enough to have bruised Him and now I was kicking Him out of my House. I called and woke my Mother up again and she assured me I was doing the right thing. I wasn't sure at all but I decided to listen to her and I laid back down and He returned about 2:00 AM. This time He knocked on the door and I came to the door. He asked me to let Him in? I asked Him did He read the conditions and did He agree with them? He said,"I'm not signing no paper and I don't owe you an apology -you owe me one for hitting me." I did apologize for losing my temper and agreed I could have handled it in a more proper way. He said,"You are right, Mother you could have now, let me in." I said ,"I'm sorry without an apology and a signature on the paper I'm not letting you in."

The he said fine, I will go and report you to the police. I will show them my bruises and they will make you let me in. I said, "Go ahead and report me but they still won't make me let you in and they will take you to DEFACS where the ones who have no Home are." You are right they may put me in jail but you will be in DEFACS and they may take you away from me permanently. If that is what you want You go ahead because I will not allow you to disrespect me as hard as I am working to make a better life for us. I know you lost your Father but I lost Him too and my lifestyle changed just as much as yours and it isn't easy for me either. We exchanged a few more words and He walked off again and I felt like I was just an awful person and I was about to call after Him when I heard him approaching the back door.

He did apologize to me and signed the paper. I opened the door and let Him in and I seen tears in his eyes. I am sure the tactics He used on me have been used on many parents and it did frighten me because I didn't want to be convicted of child abuse nor did I want my son to be a ward of the state. He expected me to back down but when He seen I wasn't going to and He truly believed I would allow Him to report me and suffer the consequences before I would allow Him back in my house,he backed down.

My Mother was totally right but I have to admit it was one of the hardest things I have ever done. Our relationship changed that night and He never talked to me that way again. I don't even know if I had to do it today if I could do it again but they are going to try to push the limits. You must let them know know they are not in control especially if you are supporting them and they live in your house.

I hope by sharing my story that it helped you some. You are not alone in what you are dealing with. Many of us have already dealt with it or they are presently dealing with it but it is no easy task. I still remember those years and how I worried every time He left in the car to go out. We still had our disagreements but nothing ever came close to the way He treated me and the language He used that night.

It is very late and I must go but I felt compelled to share with you and to let you know you are not alone. We are here for you and if you need us -just let us know? I am very good at listening and I will certainly remember you in my prayers. I warn you it is not going to be easy but don't you dare let it take control of your life. It can certainly frustrate you to the point you want to give up and of course frustration leads to depression and depression leads to isolation.

God has better plans for you and I don't what it is but our spirits have connected and I really want you to have the best life has to offer. I have a story to tell you about a man that I met over the Internet in another forum. We connected and He was having serious problems with his son and I tried to be there for Him all I could but the point was his wife and him didn't have the same ideas about how to deal with him. He wrote about what happened in a poem He sent to me and if I can find it I think it would help some of you to see what can happen. It will break your heart but I believe if I can find it I should share it with all of you.

Good Night! Mez

How Long can I stay on Suboxone Cid_0210

Deborah

Subject: Re: How Long can I stay on Suboxone Fri 30 Jan 2009, 2:06 pm

Hello,
I just wanted to add to my above post.
The topic was, "How long can I expect to stay on Suboxone."
A friend of mine asked me that the other day.
It wasn't because their doctor told them any length of time, in fact her doctor didn't have a cut off for his patients like some do.
It doesn't matter really how long you have been usuing or what drug it is that you were using.

Addiction is a disease.
If I told you that you only hd to take Suboxone for 1 year because you were addicted to oxycontin for a short time. I would be wrong.
And if I told you that you had to be on Suboxone for 6 years because you were addicited to vicodin for four years. I would be wrong again.

Because we are all different. Our bodies are different and our brain chemistry is different. We react to different things in different ways.

Some people may stay on Suboxone for the rest of thier lives, and some people may try to jump off at only 1 or 2 years.

Either way, it isn't how long that your on on Suboxone that matters. What matters is that it has saved your life.
So take time to repair your body and your brain. Take the time to enjoy the life that has been given back to you.

I hope that all of you don't mind that I came back to this topic.
But it is something that I feel I can't stress to you enough.

I hope that if your thinking about jumping off of your medication you will take the time to think about what I have said.

Yours In Recovery,
Dee

Subject: Re: How Long can I stay on Suboxone Fri 30 Jan 2009, 10:51 pm

Hi Mez,

It's Barbara...to relate a story what my Mom did to me. She didn't have the heart to throw me out, so my Mom had my sister come over and tell me to leave. I did and slept in my car for the night and found a place with a friend. This is how my life went; staying with this one and then another. Not until I sobered up and got a place of my own did my life take a change for the better. Until I was left on my own with no one to blame but myself did I do something about my pitiful situation.

Deborah, I commend you for your dedication on finishing school. I wish I had done the same. Of course I make as much and hour as most professions, but an education I would have been further up the corporate ladder. I'd be one of the bosses instead of the general worker.

On the suboxone, about six months ago I tried to taper to 1 mg a day, but went through horrible withdraws and had to go back up to 4 mgs. a day. Like Dee said, if you're not ready, it won't work. I'm going to get over this recent surgery and get back to a normal routine and try again. I don't want to wait for a pill to dissolve in my mouth everyday. I got hit in the mouth many years ago and busted one of the saliva portals, so I only have one. It's so hard for me to get my meds down sometimes taking two hours to get it down and then some of it, I swallow. A lot of the ringing in my ears and the whooshing sounds have gone. This drove me nuts at times. I feel something in my brain has healed and one day I will be able to successfully taper off.

There are a lot of good thoughts and information in this thread...thank you for sharing all of you. You have all become my lifeline to happiness. My courage to do my story is becoming stronger. I'm going to write it soon. I've been scripting in my mind and want to write what will benefit others and not cause myself unnecessary depression. I want to write what happened but not sound like it still effects me today because the past is a long way away. I've resolved a lot what happened even though it was one horror story after another. I'll get it together soon.

Closing for now,
Your friend,
Barbara

Guest

Hi,

I just found this website and have been reading through the posts. I'm at a cross road right now and I don't know what to do. For the first time ever, God willing, I will have one year clean and sober on 2/12/09. I have been a hard core addict for many years and have had many failed attempts at recovery. When I came back into recovery last year, I immediately went on 24mg of Suboxone a day. I stayed on that dose for seven months then I decided I wanted to start tapering off. So my doctor said it was okay and we started the taper. In two months I was down to 2mg per day. I had originally decided that I wanted to be off Suboxone by 2/11/09, one day before my one year. However, the past few months of being on a low dose has been very hard. At one point I went back up to 8mg per day because my emotions were crazy and I'm back in school, leading a productive life. This was right around finals time in December and I was also having family issues. So, going back up helped. Then during Christmas break I cut back down to 2mg a day. Occasionally, I have felt withdrawal symptoms and have taken 4mg per day here and there.

I set up this calendar on exactly how many milligrams I would take every day until 2/11/09. Last night I felt like getting high and it really scared me. I have some so far and the last thing I want to do is relapse on heroin. So my roommate keeps my Suboxone locked up and dispenses it to me daily (because I had asked him to a while ago, something I'm not sure I should have done now). I went to a meeting, came home and told him I wanted an 8mg tablet. He fought me tooth and nail. He has been the major factor in trying to get me off this medication by constantly pushing and pushing. He is like a family member and I know he has good intentions but he has not experienced with addiction. So finally he gave me the 8mg and I said that was it, that is my last dose. I have been up all night because I can't get my mind to slow down. I don't know what to do. Part of me is ready to just go for an all out relapse (crack and heroin) then go back on a high dose of Suboxone because that is what worked for me best. I have been seeing a doctor through all of this of course and have been honest with her. The last time I saw her which was last week I was all ready to taper off and showed her my little calendar I had made and said that was fine. Now I'm scared. I want to go get high.

My sponsor fired me for not going to meetings regularly a little over a week ago. I'm in Vermont and it's cold up here. Most of the time I just don't have the motivation to go to local AA meetings (that's all there is in town). I don't have the motivation to go out at all this time of year. I have been attending two colleges full-time, all online pulling straight As. I just don't have the motivation to go out. I'm also on an anti-depressant and an anti-anxiety medication. Now that it's the next day I don't know if I want to tell my roommate to give me the bottle and I'm going back up to my regular dose of 24mgs (and okay it with my doctor) just so I don't have to worry about relapsing again. I have struggled with addiction for 15 years and my life right now is by far better than it ever has been. I'm just so sick of being on this low dose, feeling withdrawals some days, craving more Suboxone because I know it will get rid of the cravings, being worried about relapsing if I come off of it, just an overall feeling of I don't know what to do. People are telling me I'm using Suboxone as my higher power. When I am on a set dose that is in the higher range that is not the case. It takes the wondering of should I take more or not, which occupies a lot of my thinking out of the equation. This day to day thinking of should I take more? Beating myself up for taking more, or for not being stronger, being scared to come off of it yet I don't know if I'm ready or not. Knowing that if I do come off of it and relapse I will probably die or go to jail because I go for an all out crazy binge. Me in recovery on Suboxone and me on a binge using illegal drugs are two completely different people. I am out of my mind on a binge. I am doing so well in school, have been repairing relationships with my family, feel better about myself, etc.

So basically I have two questions.

1. Does anybody have any experience or guidance they could give me about what I should do about the Suboxone and my dosage at this point in time?

2. I have been sporadically going to recovery meetings this past year and am getting grief that I'm not "following the program." I have had AA and NA shoved down my throat for so long and yet I am doing better on Suboxone without many meetings. Does anybody have any suggestions about how I should handle the meetings, working the steps and whether or not I should have a sponsor?

I literally feel stuck and sick right now.

Any help I can get from people with experience taking Suboxone would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you for your time.

Laura in Vermont

Subject: Re: How Long can I stay on Suboxone Thu 05 Feb 2009, 8:47 am

Hello Laura,
MY name is Dee, and I am one of the moderators here.
I am on my way out the door this morning but I did want to let you know that I read your post.
It is good to meet you.
I will be back on here this afternoon, and will answer your post at that time.
Barbara Rue is our other moderator and i'm sure she will be here at some point this morning to introduce herself as well.
Yours In Recovery,
Dee

Subject: Re: How Long can I stay on Suboxone Thu 05 Feb 2009, 11:46 am

Hello Laura,

My God, if I didn't know better, I would have sworn I was writing instead of you. Everything you've said is happening to me too. I'm now unhappy at 4mgs and don't dare going any higher because I've been on Suboxone for over two years. I did taper down to 1/2 milligrams at one time and was so weak, I couldn't drag myself out of bed. The horror was worse than the withdrawal from opiates itself. Well, it seem so at the time. I wasn't nauseated or having trouble at the other end...I just felt like a limp rag that had been tossed around and thrown in the corner. I went back up to 2 milligrams...wasn't happy and raised my dose to 4 milligrams. There are days when I'm fine and like for the past week has been one dragged out day after another. It could be the cold snap we've had recently. I live in Florida and the weather is usually decent in the afternoons; or it could be the surgery I've had done on my foot and been convalescing at home for five weeks. It could be a combination of all of the above. Of course, Suboxone is your higher power; it saved yours and my life. I went to A.A. and have successfully been sober for going on eighteen years. In A.A. I never mentioned my drug problem. If you want to go to N.A. because you do learn to work out living problems, I'd go to a group who doesn't know about my treatment and keep it to yourself. Go and get what your need out of what they have to say. If you don't know what to do, do nothing at the moment. Sort of when in doubt, move a pawn sort of thing. Sometimes the hardest thing to do is nothing. Maybe you are to just be still with your recovery and stop worrying about what, why, and how.

I wish I could go on some more and I will when I get back from taking my Mom to get some blood work done. I should be dressing right now. I will be right back with you and in hopes you will stay around cause maybe we can help each other.

I'm Barbara, one of the moderators and Dee being the other. She's more like a partner and friend.

I do hope you will make yourself at home here. I feel we can relate a lot of our problems out of the way.

Yours in the struggle,
Barbara

Subject: Re: How Long can I stay on Suboxone Thu 05 Feb 2009, 6:20 pm

Hi Laura
This is Dee. I am sorry that I haven't gotten back to you sooner.
I can really relate to the cold as I am also in Vermont.
I just re read your post and it is my thoughts that if you are having to think about weather or not your ready to get off of the Suboxone, then you are not ready.
Too many times, too many people are pushed into getting off of them by well meaning friends and relatives.
When you set your stop date, you set your self up.
There is no reason why you should not stay on them. As long as your doctor is still willing to treat you and keep you on them. That is what I would do.
You said that you started out on 24 mg and then tapered after only seven months. Your mind and body have not had the time it takes to heal itself.
When we are using most of us spent years abusing our bodies. We cannot expect to heal in such a short time.
Too many times people are pushed into stopping their medication by well meaning friends and relatives.
The problem there is lack of education.
I am sure that your friend does mean well, but this is your recovery. And not his.
Educate him all that you can about the disease of addiction. Our websites are full of useful information. Take him there. If he won't go, then print it out for him to read. Leave it laying around, he may get nosey enough to check it out.

I have been on 16mg of Suboxone for going on three years now. Some days a little less but, I have no plans on tapering anytime soon. Why?
Because for once I can live again. I can get up in the mornings and I have no cravings. I can do the things that I always never had time for before because I was always out looking for what would make me feel better.
I can go to family functions without first making sure I had something to see me through the day.
The list goes on and on.

I starting using drugs when I was 13 years old. I went from alcohol, to pills, to heroin. This medication saved my life.

As for the meetings. I can't say too much about them as I don't go to them anymore. I got tired of being judged by people that had no idea what I was going through.
This group here has become my meetings. When I have a problem I can come here.
The people here care about me and I know that. they have all been where I have been. And that makes a big difference.

What ever you decide remember, we are here for you. And we will help you in any way that we can.
I am glad to see you here and hope that you will decide to stay with us.
I do care.
Yours in Recovery,
Dee

www.medicalassistedtreatment.org/

www.suboxoneassistedtreatment.org/

And remember;
Just as a heart patient takes their medication, so do we.
Just as a diabetic takes their medication, so do we.

We all have a disease, we all take medication for our disease.
We don't substitute. It saves our lives.

Subject: Re: How Long can I stay on Suboxone Thu 05 Feb 2009, 6:38 pm

Hello Laura!!
I just finished reading your post & it really got me thinking.. Does your doctor feel that your ready to go off of the Subs? I know that you said she agreed that you could, but was that her suggestion or your idea? Is she pushing you to continue with this taper, despite how your feeling? Have you spoken with her about the cravings that your experiencing, as well as the fear of not being on them? I would think that any doctor who understands addiction & prescribes the Subs would think it's better to remain on them, at any dosage, rather than chancing relapse! Especially when your already struggling with those thoughts! I really hope that you'll take the chance to explain these things to her & that your unwilling to risk your recovery & how far you've already come! Like you said, I know that if I go back to using, I will be dead or in jail in a very short time! I get scared that I won't survive another relapse & like I said to you, I'm not willing to risk it! I pray that you will think hard & not rush to try to be off of them by a certain date if your not feeling ready!
As for your question about the 12 Steps & meetings, I've also struggled with some of these meetings. I think that the overall concept of the 12 Steps is wonderful & could help anyone in life, not only addicts, but just an overall good way to live life! Yet, I've also felt very singled out, as they don't consider being on Suboxone being in recovery. I don't understand this thought process, especially when referring to addiction as a disease, but not being able to take medication to keep this disease under control?? If you do enjoy going to the meetings & you feel like they're helping you, my best advice would to be to not tell them about being on a "maintenance medication" to avoid that situation. I personally didn't feel like I was getting much out of the meetings because as you said, we only have the AA meetings close to where I live & our situations & stories weren't alike. I understand that addiction is addiction, but people who use certain substances are in different ballpark than those who are into or addicted to a different drug. Such as, you hear ecstasy & you think of rave parties, or many people who are alcoholics are out running in the bars, where if you have an opiate addiction, your most likely holed up in your house. (or someone's house!) Am I even making sense? I guess that my whole point is, that I don't think that you need the 12 Steps to remain in recovery, but I believe that it can certainly help improve your life, if your comfortable enough at the meetings to be able to make those changes..
I doubt that I've really helped you too much, but wanted to say hello & hope that you'll really consider your decision about going off the Subs if your not feeling ready! (not like you aren't, as that's probably all that your thinking about!) But if your already apprehensive, please don't feel that you have to rush it!
I'd love to hear more from you & how this is all working out for you! I hope that you'll keep in touch.
Sending hugs & strength your way!
Stay warm!
Yours,
Beth I love you

Number of posts : 256 Age : 67 Registration date : 2009-01-10

Hi Laura, I am just repeating what the other great ladies are saying. If you are uncomfortable with tapering and getting off of suboxone then this isn't the right time to be tapering. I been on 16 mg of suboxone since Aug. 08. I am just starting to get my life and emotions back together. I could not trust my self at this time or do I want to take a chance on relasping. This is the best I felt in years. As for AA and NA I been to both. I would keep quite about being on Suboxone because I made the mistake of telling someone at a NA meeting and she just looked at me and walked away. If you want great support and advise this is were you want to be. I say things here that I can't say at a 12 step meeting. So I hope you will join us. Cathy

Subject: Re: How Long can I stay on Suboxone Fri 06 Feb 2009, 5:44 am

Laura, hello from Mez in Oz.

I just read your post and can really relate to what you are going through. I'm not going to tell you what to do about your suboxone as that is up to you and your doctor only, but I would like to share my experience briefly with you.

I was 'clean' in 12 step meets for 17 years. They saved my life from using heroin and I am always grateful for that. When I relapsed after such a long clean time, I had a really hard time in those rooms, and although I was told that I was in the right place etc, I was judged harshly and basically used as an example from various speakers from the floor. I got really sick of being referred to as 'the one who did my busting for me'.

When I first got on suboxone, I attended meetings and felt even more isolated and tapered off the sub after being on them for six months. This was so I could go to meetings and feel like part of the 'firm' again. All that happened to me was, my head went crazy as I was reducing the sub. and the cravings were driving me mad. In the end I started using again and once again I was facing all of those suicidal thoughts, self loathing and fear.

The thing I experienced with meetings was that people were willing to offer advice and support as long as you turned up every day and stayed off the gear. Too bad that I was going through a major depressive episode and that I had to work shift work and care for my kids and animals. The unconditional love stopped at the door.

I have been back on suboxone for about six months now and have tapered down from 16 to 8mg. I beleive I am comfortable with this dose for now and I have realised that this is a very individual thing. What works for me might be different for someone else. The more options addicts have to live a happy and fullfilled life, the better.

I don't go to meetings anymore. That is my personal choice. And that is O.K. If you feel comfortable in meetings, then that is a good thing. People in the rooms have no right to judge others or tell them that they can't share because they are on suboxone, or whatever. They are not professionals and don't walk in my shoes. That is just my opinion Laura, and I just wanted you to know that it is a hard enough struggle being discriminated in society in general let alone our own support networks.

You are working hard for your recovery and it has been really good to read your post. Thanks.

Mez.

Guest

Hi everybody,

I made a long post here a few months ago and I see a lot of you have responded. During that time, I had made a few different posts on a few different forums and I forgot specifically which ones I posted on (I did have plans to check them later, but I totally forgot about them to be honest, I was so wrapped up in my issues at the time). Tonight I was watching a CNN special about addiction and it talked about pills being so helpful to some people who are in recovery. It didn't mention Suboxone specifically but it got me thinking. So I typed in Suboxone issues in my browser and I saw that I had already clicked on this link (because it was a different color). So I clicked on it again and started reading.

This is kind of funny and ridiculous on my part-I was going through the posts without looking at the names and I saw someone said they were going to have a year on 2/12/09. I'm like wow, that person has the same exact date as me. Then I looked at the name. It was me who wrote the post. Ha ha. I'm not usually this flaky. I just am not used to forums like these and I forgot I wrote in this one. At least I can laugh at myself now and not curse myself for being so stupid.

The first thing I want to say is thank you so so so much for all of the responses. I just read them all. Thank you 100 times over. I have tears running down my cheeks because I'm so grateful there are people like you out there.

To give you an update- I'm doing great. I just had 14 months on Easter. I went back to my doctor after a few more days of aggravation and being really mad at myself and decided I just could not get off the Suboxone now (you were right, I'm not ready). Crack still haunts me. I have a hard enough time dealing with those cravings. If I had to deal with heroin on top of it, I don't think I would be able to handle it. So, my doctor put me up to 8mg a day. I took that for the first day and I still didn't feel like that was enough. I wasn't trying to get high, I just felt kind of squirmy and uncomfortable. So I cut an 8mg in half and took another 4mg and I felt fine. The next day the same thing happened. So I called my doctor again. She wanted to see me again. We had a long talk and decided I would stay on 12mg and that it would be better if I was dispensing the medication to myself (my roommate was originally doing it and it was making me crazy). So, with those issues resolved (I was just going to stay on the 12mg for now with no plans of cutting down), it took away all of that negative thinking I was having and being mad at myself for not being able to get off the Suboxone which was actually a huge part of my thought process, thinking about all of this stuff.

So, since that time, I did have my year, which really felt great. I joined a relapse prevention group that meets once a week for a little over an hour. It's a totally different set up than AA or NA. It's people that have had drug addictions talking about whatever they want and people can ask for feedback, give feedback, whatever. It's a big conversation talking back and forth to each other (I'm so not used to that, I'm used to you raise your hand, talk once if that, and then listen to everybody else). Each meeting is so different. Since it was at a rehab, they happened to have a beginner's AA meeting right after the relapse prevention group. So one week I went. Wow, there were close to 100 people there, many inpatient, and I could see the look of desperation on their faces that I know all too well. It really affected me. So, sometimes I go to that beginner's meeting, sometimes I don't.

My social life isn't that good. I'm still basically a hermit but school keeps me so busy and that will let up a little in a month so I'll have more time to do other things (I go to two schools and take all of my classes online). I haven't really gone to any other recovery meetings other than the one I mentioned and now don't talk to my second sponsor anymore either. So, that area needs some work but someone reminded me- maybe this time to myself is exactly what my mind and body needs to heal, maybe this is what I need right now and that will change over time (I used to be the social butterfly at certain times in my life). So, I don't really feel guilty about not going out. I'm safe. I'm not using. I'm doing great in school and most days are good days. That's a HUGE improvement from where I was at, even two years ago.

Overall, I feel much more stable now. Dee and Barbara (and the others that commented), you're right. Taking Suboxone is an individual thing (as far as doses I mean) and what dosage worked before, may be different than what an individual needs now. 24mg worked for me for a while, now 12mg seems to do the trick.

I'm going to go to bed but I have bookmarked this page and I at least wanted to make a post tonight to let you all know that I'm doing really good and I wanted to thank you all so much for your posts. It really makes me feel like I'm not alone in this struggle.

So thank you all so much. I hope you are all doing well. I'll write again soon.

Love,

Laura

Subject: Re: How Long can I stay on Suboxone Sun 26 Apr 2009, 12:18 am

Hi Laura,

So glad to hear you have found a comfortable place to be. As you said everyone is different...I'm chomping at the bit to be off all medicine and like you said again, you have to be ready. I've lasted all week at 2 milligrams a day. It's been a bit taxing, but I'm going to give it another week. I believe my mind has to be able to cope with the lesser amount, but even at four milligrams, my mind felt like a can of mush; not to mention the depletion of energy. I just found out I'm enemic, but don't want to start taking iron suppliments each day because of the constipation involved. I take a few stool softeners once a week as it is. I'm going to try to eat what's high in iron and see if it works. I also found out I've had a bacteria in my stomach for a long time and this is the reason for my poor appetite, feeling ill and no sense of well-being. I'll be finished with the antibiotics,( 3000 units a day) and will I be glad. I've kept a bottle of water close by and only had a few sips of coffee in the morning. I'm to go for another test as soon as I've made the appointment and see my gastrologist in a month. I just hope I can get my mind and body back in working order and find some kind of joy in life.

Through the years man has made so many mistakes trying to successfully detox an addict. Years ago, they used heroin to get people off of morphine. I remember one hospital I went to to detox. The first day I got twenty milligrams of Methadone and the next day fifteen, next day ten, the next day five and then nothing after that. I thought I was going to go insane. I had to wait 72 hours from the time I asked to go home so all this "medicine" they gave me was out of my system. My husband picked me up with half and 80 milligram and I chewed it up so fast I knew I was in deep trouble with my habit. This is why finding Suboxone was like finding gold. I hope we both find our way out and off the cycle of desolving a pill every day. If we listen to our bodies, we will know when it's time to quit.

Good night for now,
Yours in the struggle,
Barbara

Subject: Re: How Long can I stay on Suboxone Fri 01 May 2009, 10:29 pm

Hi Barbara,

I'm sorry to hear you are having so many stomach/digestive issues. It seems like a lot of people I come into contact with have chrones, celiac disease, bacterial infections, viruses, etc. I hope the increase in iron is working and your bacterial infection is long gone now.

Good for you to be on 2mg a day. Do you think you are doing too much right now trying to cut down on the Suboxone and deal with all of the stomach/digestive issues (plus all of the everyday problems we all experience)?

To read my post from a few months ago and compare it to now, my thinking is so different. I was really chomping at the bit to get off the Suboxone and I wanted it done by my one year. I've also been taking Klonopin for severe anxiety. I know most doctors don't allow people to mix the Suboxone with a benzo but this doctor let me and it's working for me. I know my risk of having respiratory failure is higher but I can't function at this point without either drug.

I've been so stressed out lately I've been crying a lot. I think it's the mix of all of the last minute assignments from four of my classes ending and frustration about things in my past. I don't want to up the dose of anything but I'm having a hard time dealing with life right now. I don't want to relapse or anything. I've come too far. Tomorrow will be a better day.

You hang in there (I will too) and hopefully we can talk soon.

Take care.

Laura

Guest

Hi Laura
You have accomplished so much from what you have said, You should be very proud of yourself, I know If I put too much on my plate I can get overwhelmed, maybe this is why you have been crying, I just want to say is try to take a easy, Also if you are coming down from suboxone can that make a person get emotional? I know it doe's with methadone, I am on Methadone, But I need to learn about Suboxone because my husband is coming off the methadone and going on suboxone, I just pray he doe's because I don't want him to get triggered on doing drug's, I have heard good thing's about suboxone, My husband did tell me he wants to try to do without suboxone, My opinion is I think he should go on a low dose of Suboxone, We will see, Anyway's Laura It is very nice to meet you, I'm a Mom of 2 son's my oldest is 23 yr old and a Sargent in the Marine's he's been to Iraq several time's, He just recently signed up for another 4 yr, He is going to Afghanistan, He has been threw so much as a young man, He got married His wife was pregnant with Twins " Boy n Girl" and she miscarried, also They just Divorced, There was 1 time when he was in Iraq Him and his men drove over a Bomb, He flew out of the vehicle somehow, suffered a really bad concussion, The Vehicle was on fire, he got all 4 men out of the vehicle, 1 guy lost a leg, another guy was burned real bad, They gave my son a Purple Heart for Bravery, And a Silver Star, I guess you can see how Proud of a Mom I am, My other Son is 16 yr old and He is in Academy Honor's and He wants to be a Nurse, He went to JROTC, also was in a poem contest and won, He is a Great Friend to his friend's and a Great Son, I am so proud of Him as well. Sorry I didn't mean to get off the topic, I see you take Klonopin for severe anxiety, I take Valium for that also. I have been taking that about 15 yr, etc...Other meds as well, like for Depression, Clonidine. Anyway I Just really want to welcome you, For me this is a Safe Place I can come to, and Talk or get Advice, It's Like home where I can open up Totally, Everyone here Respect's our Privacy too, I hope To keep in-touch . Sincerely Sam. PS Barbara I hope your doing so Much better, please let me know how your doing. love you.

Subject: Re: How Long can I stay on Suboxone Mon 04 May 2009, 4:18 pm

Hi Sammy,
It's great to see you here. Everytime I read about your son's, I can hear the pride that you carry for them.
You have done a great job with them.
Do you remember how you felt when you had to go without your methadone for that short time. Your husband will be feeling very similar to that. Except for him, if he doesn't do the switch over to Suboxone, I am afraid it will be much worse.
Methadone Withdrawal is one of the most difficult things that I have ever gone through. As much as I hate to admit it, I did use a couple of times while waiting for my Suboxone appointment.
That is why I went into residential treatment. I could not handle it. The emotional withdrawals were as bad as the physical. I don't know how long it lasts though, as I said I went into treatment. (after one month of being without Methadone)
Just let your husband know that whatever he decides, we will all be here for him. And if he decides that he does want to try Suboxone, there is nothing wrong with that.
Forgive me for butting into your post. You know me, I usually add my two cents when I have it to add.
Great to see you,
Dee

Subject: Re: How Long can I stay on Suboxone Tue 05 May 2009, 3:48 pm

Hi,

Thank you, Sammy. Thank you, Dee.

I don't know what it is like to be on Methadone long term and then try to come off of it or switch to Suboxone so I'm glad you could give some experience with that, Dee. I do know that with coming off the Suboxone, for me- the lower the dose got, the more my emotions kicked up. A few times after going lower on the dose, I would feel the crazy emotions, cry, deal with them and then after a while it would get a little better. When I was coming down in my dose (during the time it was getting really low is what I mean, it seems that when the dose was still high and I was cutting down, it wasn't a problem, It was really when I got down to about 4mg and lower that it got really hard), it was around Christmas time. All of my classes had just ended and I was going on vacation to Maryland/D.C. My roommate was driving. I had a safe place to stay. So there were no stressors in my life for a period of time. I had been so exhausted from finishing the semester and pulling a few all nighters the last week of school so right when I lowered my dose was when my classes were done (and I was really proud of myself) and I was exhausted (so I slept for two days). That combination, plus being around really caring people made the dosage lowering, not so bad. However, after school started again and I started getting stressed out, I couldn't handle it. Had I not had the Suboxone to immediately go up on my dose, I would have relapsed on herion. So, that's what I know.

I stay at 12mg a day right now. I had started on 24mg and stayed on that for seven months, cut down for five months (getting down to 1mg per day), then decided I wasn't ready and was going to lose my mind or relapse so I went back up to 8mg. I still felt funny so I went up again to 12mg and that did it. I felt evened out again. I did all of this under a doctor's care of course. I had decided when I came back up to 12mg, that was where I was going to stay and I wasn't going to think about changing my dose. The whole idea of "lowering the dose and getting off the Suboxone process" took up a lot of my thinking in the time that it was happening. It's nice to just stay on a the same dose and not think about changing it or having to come off of it. Luckily, I was approved for medicaid and I know I'm covered until October. So until then, I'm not going to worry about it. I'm just going to keep getting better and get some more time between me and my last relapse.

I hope some of what I have shared has been helpful.

Sammy-You should be a proud Mom. Your sons sound amazing.

It's so good to come here and share with you all. I get so much out of writing my posts (both venting and sharing my experiences) as well as reading all of your posts.

Thank you.

Talk to you soon.

Laura

Subject: Re: How Long can I stay on Suboxone Tue 05 May 2009, 11:17 pm

Laura,
You are very wise to listen to your body. And thank you also for sharing your experience.
I believe your experiences will be helpful for the new member just starting out on Suboxone. New patients need to see that there is nothing wrong with continuing Suboxone. I have spent more time assuring people that taking Suboxone for long periods of time is a lot better than the alternative, in a lot of cases the alternative is death. By the time most of us discover this miracle medication we are at the end of our rope.
It's sad that I have had many people ask me "how much longer will I be on Suboxone" I tell them that I will probably take it for the rest of my life. Somehow they think that it is a cure. There is no cure for addiction. Only with education, medication, and support can I live the life I live now.
I'm in no hurry to give that up.
Will you be able to re-certify for your medicaid in October? I hope so.
I will keep you in my prayers.
Don't stop posting Laura, your words hold wisdom and I enjoy hearing from you, just as I do everyone else that I have met here.
Sleep well, it is late and I am off to bed.
Dee

Subject: Re: How Long can I stay on Suboxone Tue 05 May 2009, 11:32 pm

Well, this is my second time of tapering down to 2 milligrams. This time it's not so bad. My nose is runny and I feel edgy at times, but I just get through it. I know I'll level out sooner or later. Everyone is different. Even if I do taper completly, I'll still be here for the new people and for my loved one I've gotten to know.

Hang in there!

Love,
Barbara

Subject: Re: How Long can I stay on Suboxone Mon 25 May 2009, 6:57 pm

Hello Ladies, and Gentlemen?
This may be a long post because I did not see a direct answer to my concerns. So, to get the best advice, I think I need to give you a pretty good idea of my medical history. Due to a severe knee injury eight years ago, I limped around in pain for two years before I went to a doctor. Yes, I know that was stupid but I'm a guy and that is what guys do. During that time osteoarithritis set in the injured knee and also the uninjured knee which was taking the load. The arthritis began to get considerably worse to the point that I really couldn't stand the pain. I was referred to a pain managemnt guy who put my on Oxycontin, Da*n him After two years, I got up to 160mgs a day and still had pain. One night a year and a half ago, I considered taking more than the prescribed dose just to make the pain go away so I could sleep. I didn't seccumb to the temptation but went to my regular doctor the next day and told her I had to get off of this stuff or I would become a 54 year old drug addict. I fired the pain doctor and over six months my regular doctor worked with me until I got down to 40mgs Oxy a day with no real problems except the expected increase in knee pain. I called her one day for my next appointment as was told she was no longer at the office. I don't know if she died, had an accident or went somewhere else but I was turned over to a real old doctor. After I expplained the situation, he told me I was an addict, that he would not give me any more Oxy and to go find a rehab place. I should have shot him on the spot for I felt he was commiting malpractice but that's water over the dam.
A few days after that encounter, I did find a doctor who prescribed suboxene. I met with him. Instinctively, I didn't like him because he treated me like an addict who would lie and cheat to get any fix and not a patient who folloewed doctor's orders and was given a medication which had a physical dependence, the ramifications of which I was not aware. I can understand the "addict" doctor's cynicism but still didn't appreciate it. Anyway, I started on 16mgs Suboxene about a year ago. That turned out to be way too much and I went down to eight mgs within a few days. I pushed the doctor to help me get off the Suboxene faster than he would have liked, partially because I didn't like being treated like an addict and tested for opiates every time I went there and also it costs me $150 everytime I go there and I'm poor. I do have medical insurance that covers the Suboxene but not the doctor. Anyway, after 11 mopths, I am down to 2mgs every other day. The last time I went to the doctor, the drug store gave me the 8/2mg tablet instead of the 2mg tablet. I have been cutting them in quarters and taking one quarter every other day, or less than one whole pill a week. I have about 26 pills left, enough to last another six months. I would like to get off of this stuff before they run out so I don't have to see the doctor again and can get on with my life. Unfortunately, I can't cut the pills into eighths to try and wean my self further.
48 hours after taking 2mg of the Suboxene, I begin to suffer extreme anxiety, restlessness, sensitive skin, etc., all of which appear to be classic signs of narcotic withdrawal. Since I have the medication still available, I take another 2mg and the withdrawal symptoms go away. I recognize that some of thse symptoms can be emotional but I also suffer from panic attacks and Major Depreseeive Disorder and my shrink has me on medication that prevents me from ever being anxious.
So after all of this background, my question is should I just tough it out, lock my self in the bedroom and suffer for a couple of days or am I catastrophising and worrying that I won't sleep for a month and will turn suicidal again (thats another story from three years ago, not particularly related to my present prediciment although I recognize that my extreme knee pain is not a cause but is a contributing factor to my depression) or worse yet, go postal. I realize that going sicidal or postal has never really been a symptom of narcotic withdrawl but you ladies certainly know more than me and I want to cover every possible base. Should I try and take 2mg Suboxene every three days or just go off of it altogether. In all honesty, I am a coward and have no suport group (family or friends). I am a self-employed accountant working out of my home with three employese. So, if one of them came to work in the morning and saw me screaming like a lunatic in my bedreeom, they would call an ambulance but I don't have anyone to hold my hand in the middle of the night and that scares me to death. Should I try and find a rehab clinic that would accept me as an inpatient for a couple of days.
Any advice or opinions you can offer would be greatly appreciated. Are there any other sites that could zero in on this question in greater detail or any threads in this site that I missed? I appreciate the telephone number of the manufacturer but I am not sure I would believe what they say if they say "oh don't worry, you can take a low maintenance dose forever.". The suboxene has helped me to get off of the narcotics so my mind is more clear, a necessity for an accountant, so I am greatful but they also have a vested interest in keeping me on the medication.
Many thanks for those of you who have taken the time to read this post all the way through to the end, whew.
Dale

Subject: Re: How Long can I stay on Suboxone Mon 25 May 2009, 9:27 pm

Hi Dale,
I responded to your other post before I saw this one. When I posted that one I did not realize that you are already down so far on your dose.
The only think that I can offer is that if you are trying to avoid any withdrawals is to take it slow. Slower than you already are if you have to.
The taper that we have posted here is for higher doses I know.
Barbara, our other moderator has been trying to also taper her self down to eventually get off of the Suboxone altogether. So I'm sure she can relate to what you are saying.
You can try taking your dose as you are now. But each time you take your dose try taking a sliver less than you are now. That way you will be lowering your dose little by little. Eventually you should be able to be on a dose low enough to where you can stand the withdrawals if any.

There is no reason for you to feel like your alone in this. We are here and we are not going anywhere.
If you need to talk to someone we are available 24 hours a day 7 days a week. Our phone number is listed at the end of this post.
Someone is usually here throughout the day and late at night. So if you post someone is sure to see it and answer you.
Don't give up.
Yours In Recovery,
Dee

Subject: Re: How Long can I stay on Suboxone Tue 26 May 2009, 12:15 am

Hi Dale,

I didn't see this either untill I'd read your Introduction post. I left the number of the nurse. They will work with you to taper off. Dale, believe me I believe this with all my heart. There is a devil that is inside all of us and he has had a hold on you and doesn't want to let go. At all costs he will do anything to keep you under his thumb. This is why you ended up getting the eight milligram pills. Two milligrams every other day...wow, you are so close. See if you can find another doctor who will work with you. I'm so fortunate with mine. He says it's my little wagon to pull and not his. Just keep trying. You have to taper down to where your brain can handle it. Please stay close and let us know how you are doing. You need a friend who will steer you right.

It's late and I have to get up in four hours to work. I'll be back in around 5:30. Going postal isn't a luxury you can afford at this time. You have been through the worst part. Just hold what you have and you'll make it.

Love and hugs,
Barbara

Subject: Re: How Long can I stay on Suboxone Tue 26 May 2009, 4:37 pm

Hi Dale,
My name is Beth & I haven't had the opportunity to even say hello to you, as I didn't realize that you'd joined until I just read the above post. I apologize for not at least introducing myself sooner, but I did read your post & wanted to at least make contact with you. I really have respect for you to let your pain doctor know that you couldn't handle this Oxycontin business without becoming an addict. That took courage in itseslf, especially while your dealing with chronic pain. Although, you really had to go through tough times when this doctor "dropped off the face of the earth.." I'd like to point out that what I'm saying here is only my own opinion, but my perspective on Suboxone & the length of time that people need to remain on it, is a completely individual decision. Who knows you better than you? When I first started taking them, I am also "poor" and was in a huge rush to get off of them. I thought that six months was plenty long enough. Although, I know now more than what I did then, that I tried to taper way too quickly. Although, this was the schedule that they gave me, but I went from 20 mgs a day to none from October 1st until Halloween. I felt "okay" for about a day & a half, then it hit me like a freight train. I felt just like I had when I first tried to stop the narcotics. (you know where I am) I immediately called a doctor & made an appointment for the next day. I was not nearly in the right frame of mind to try to stop, nor did I do it correctly, as I realized that at that high of a dosage, I should've been "weaned" for much longer. After that incident, I have been able to "let go" of concerning myself with a specific time or date that I should be off of them. I may never go off them, if I cannot get my brain & body to "balance out" on its own again. I don't even know what damage I've done to the chemicals in my brain from long term opiate abuse, but until I can feel "secure" that those chemicals have returned & are producing themselves at the appropriate levels, I will not take that chance. My entire life has changed & been saved due to Suboxone. I never want to go back! I also, like you, suffer from depression & anxiety. I am going through the issue of not getting the right medications to get it under control or maybe just not at the right dosages. If I'm not being too nosey, what has or hasn't worked for you? What do you recommend? Particularly because most anxiety meds are also habit forming, which is now another struggle with my "Psychiatrist/Addiction Specialist!" Another whole long story.. But, if you have suggestions, please pass them along!
As for your situation, I don't know enough about these low of dosages or just trying to "lock yourself in your bedroom" to know what the right answer would be, but I think that if you are still having narcotic type withdrawl symptoms, even at this very low dosage, that maybe you want to hold out a little longer?? Again, I'm not even near the point of knowing how you feel taking that small of an amount, as I am still at a much higher dosage. I am only throwing out my opinion- just another perspective. Wink

I hope that you will continue to let us know how its working out for you. I'd also really appreciate any feedback about what has helped you through your depression & anxiety Question

Glad to have come across your post today & take care!!
Yours in the Battle,
Beth I love you

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