Suboxone and Depression Issues

Do you ladies (or men) have a tendency to take more suboxone ?.I take a morning dose and in the afternoon 2 more seem to "pick me up".It really helps with physical pain like with Fibromylgia..I am a massage therapist and work very hard physically .I am 51 years old.This depression almost scares me more than the dependency on the drug.I guess the "cutting back" on doses might be why I am getting depressed.???? I see my MD tomorrow.We will talk about this.I like my doctor,but he is not an addict.He doesn't know how it is.I m involved with AA.

Hi Lise,
How are you doing today? I am fine, but very frustrated right now. I just wrote you this big long reply & my computer went slower & slower on me until it just froze out, with the post, of course! I wish that I had the time to re-write that post to you, but wanted to let you know that I am thinking of you & concerned... You mentioned that you had an appointment with your doctor tomarrow(?) Have you ever tried any anti-depressants? I believe that Trazadone in itself is an anti-depressant, as well as helping with sleep. But I know that I take Zoloft as well. Maybe you could speak to him about something along those lines. Another one called "Cymbalta" I have heard has good effects, as well as helping with pain issues. Also, I was curious as to what dosage of Suboxone your currently prescribed or maybe confused, how much are you taking each day? Is it 32mgs? Are you also seeing any type of counselor or therapist to help your maintenance in recovery? I saw that you mentioned that you are in AA. Does that help you out? Do the other members know that you are on Suboxone? How did they respond to that, if so? If you haven't mentioned taking it, I would recommend that you don't. I have gone to meetings as well & have been told that being on Suboxone is not being sober & clean. That I was substituting one drug for another. I no longer attend any meetings such as those because I know what Suboxone has done for my life & that I am not getting "high" on the Suboxone. It has simply helped me maintain my opiate addiction, which addiction is considered a disease, so why wouldn't I take a medication for a disease that I have? If a member of AA had diabetes, would they also be considered not clean & sober if they were to use insulin to maintain it? I'm sorry to go off about it, but once I get going on this subject, oh it frustrates me so! Have you experienced any of that criticism? Do you believe that you can remain clean & sober, off of everything, even Suboxone? Or is it just due to the cost? I hope that you will speak frankly with your doctor tomarrow & let him know of your depression, but that you've been tapering down off the Soboxone as well, so that could be a side effect. And I also ask the same question as Dee did above, are you planning on tapering completely off of them or just to a maintainable level? I'm scared for you to just completely stop taking them.
Please keep in touch & let us hear how it goes at your doctor appointment tomarrow.
Blessings to you Lisepeterson!
Yours in Recovery,
B (Beth)

Hi Lise,

I know when things start to come down on me a lot of times it's not as bad as I feared and things worked themselves out. Are you taking 8 or 2 milligram tablets? You could start a slow taper by working with your doctor. Mine always had me drop my afternoon dose down and then split my morning dose. Over a period of a few months I had cut my dose in half and not feel badly. Try to keep your worries in the present tense and not fret about what's going to happen next week or next month. Things have a way of taking care of themselves when we take it a day at a time. I'm sure you have heard this many times. I was in A.A. for alcoholism and this month I have 18 years without a drink. I never mentioned I was even a drug addict in A.A. They (old timers) don't give you the respect you deserve when they know you are an addict even if you aren't on anything.

Honey, just let time and prayer take care of you and you'll be fine. Just keep posting and writing things down. It makes it not so huge to look at.

I hope I have helped some. Please keep writing to us and we will be there for you. We have some wonderful people here. Write down what you want to say to your doctor tomorrow.

Love,
Barbara

Thanks Ladies.I am on 8 mg tabs.I was pretty much at 4 a day though my rx says 1 every 8 hours as needed.I told my doc I take 4 a day.I would many times take 6 or even 8 a day when in alot of pain.I then was having to pay out of pocket cause I ran out of my 90 free ones every month and ran out on a weekend once and started feeling sick like the old addict days.It made me very angry and depressed especially when I saw how much $$ I was putting out.Thats when I knew I had to get a handle on my dosages.I am now NOT in pain. I see doc tomorrow and I will tell him about my plan to get to 2 a day and stay at that for awhile.My assistance is up in Oct.,so I either need to be off it,or stay at a very low dosage to afford it.It is 131.00$ for 21 tabs!...the info for Suboxone says you can take 2 at a time,thats when I started to take too much.By the way,I have heard horror stories about Cymbalta.and Lamictal,which I have had is also expensive.Antideppressants can be very weird and I hesitate to take anything more than Trazadone.I just hope it will be enoughfor the depression.Keep talking to me.I don't mention Suboxone at meetings,but my sponsor and a few friends know what I am going thru and they are supportive.They had seen a very good change in me while on it for this past year,except for the recent depression.Also had a counselor that approved too.I am going to see if my coverage allows me to see her again soon.

Hi Lise,
How are you hanging in there today? What time is your doctors appointment? I hope that between the two of you that you can find the proper dosage for your Suboxone and/or help with your depression.
I hate to hear that you are having these issues, but please do let your doctor know, as he may be able to offer you a different solution. Or at the very least, some ideas of how to get through this time period.
As Dee had mentioned above, the ceiling dosage for the Suboxone is 32mgs per day. After that, it will not help you any further. In fact, still using Dee's wording, with Suboxone, "less is more" meaning that you actually do feel better on lower dosages. I am currently still prescribed 24mgs, but have actually never needed that entire amount. I have normally been taking 16mgs daily, for a long time now, but now I am also "cutting down" a bit. I'm trying to take 8mgs one day, then back to 16mgs the next day. It has been going pretty well for me, but I'm only doing it this way to buy myself more time until I see a new doctor on the 24th. Who knows though? I may continue to keep lowering my dosage, as it is so very expensive! But only if I continue to feel good while doing so, as I have thus far.
I also wanted to ask you what horror stories you have heard about Cymbalta? I'd basically heard from a friend who has began taking it for a couple of months now that it has helped her out more than anything else ever has. And she has tried many anti-depressants. That's why I was curious as to what you have heard, as I was considering it also.
I hope that your appointment goes well for you today & that between two great minds, you'll find the dosages or proper meds needed for you to begin feeling so much better again!! Please do let us hear how your appointment goes & what your doctor has to say. Good luck today, my friend!
Again, please do keep in touch!
Blessings to you & your recovery Lise!!
Yours in the Struggle,
Beth

went to the doc...he said to keep lowering by quarter pill every few days and to see a pychiatrist that I used to go to for the depression.Friend said Cymabalta was the worst thing he ever tried to quit,had hallucinations was very bad time.Lamictal is good but spendy. just feel like shit.Having headaches everyday.Prozac worked for awhile then stopped working.Havent tried anything else.

Hi Lise,
I just read your post & it made me feel so very sad. You sounded like you'd given up. I do understand your frustrations & how very hard of a struggle this is on a daily basis. It's no wonder that we get depressed. Lise, I'm asking you to please hang on to some glimmer of hope & know that you can & will make it through this, you have no choice. But it can get better. There are so many different ways of getting through your own recovery, but I know that you can find one that will work for you, if you don't quit trying, my friend. We are always here for you for anything to possibly help you through your path of recovery. Please just hold on & get through today. Everyday is the day that you may wake up feeling great!
Your Friend in this horrible struggle,
Beth

Hi everybody, I missed you all! I figure I would put my 2 cents in since I have taken every anti-depressant known to man. The only thing that worked for me was the Cymbalta. It helps my pain and depression. As for being depress mixing up your suboxone doses that way will cause depression and taking too many I thought wil put you into withdrawal. I could be wrong. Love, Cathy

My doctor is Kirkland Spinecare...he is a Pysiatrist...does injections ,pain management and stuff,but has a special interest in pain control and opiate abuse ever since he lost a patient that he was prescribing oxycontin too.He really kinda pushes the suboxone...he wrote a paper on it...I like him..he told me today "keep up the good work"....meaning a clean UA I guess...he wants me to follow up with a psychiatrist we both know.One who is head of Fairfax Mental Hospital in Seattle area.Where do you two live?

It hasnt put me into withdrawl,but I do feel like shit with a headache.I will stay at 3 a day for a few days,then slowly go down.Doc said to lower by quarter every few days....

Hi Lise,
How are you doing today? I'm glad that you haven't gone into any type of withdrawls, but be careful with your taper plans. That seems like its so quick to drop down that fast. Please just let your doctor know if your having a hard time going any lower, when & if that time comes. Maybe you can remain maintained on a much lower dosage for a while? Which would still be much less expensive in the meantime. I'm just scared for you to continue to drop down too quickly, in a hurry to get off of them due to finances. As I've mentioned, I am also a cash patient & I know how wicked expensive it all really is when you sit down & add it all up. But Lise, you are priceless! Life is short & I don't want you to be living miserably everyday when you don't have to, my friend. Please just give these words some consideration & know that I will be here to to support you throughout whatever you decide to do to handle it all. I hope that you will keep in touch & let me hear how your feeling on the lower dosages. As for the headaches, did you also get them when you'd first started on the Suboxone or have they just come on recently? I just ask because I also deal with near daily headaches. At first, I know that the Suboxone was the reasoning, as headaches are a "normal" side effect of the Suboxone, but after a couple of months, they went away. Now here recently, I have been having them again, but I do not think its because of the meds this time. I think that they are just caused by my daily stress. (my stress level has been way up lately!) If I have to, I take Rapid Release Tylenol 500mgs, usually two of them, but they seem to help my headaches pretty well. Does anything along those lines help relieve your headaches? I also know of some members using Motrin (ibprofen) for daily pain relief. Maybe just something else to try?? I hope that the psychiatrist that your going to see will have some better ideas for you. I know that depression can also cause physical symptoms, so possibly that could be alleviated as your depression gets under control... When do you go to see this new doctor? Do you have your appointment set up yet? Does he have a long waiting list to get an appointment to see him? I hope not & that you can get in there quickly. If he does have a long waiting list, you can always ask to be placed on the "Cancellation List" as well. You said he is located in Seattle, where do you live? Is it also Seattle? I've always wanted to visit that area, but have only made it to Northern California, no further north than the Sequoia National Park or Fishermans Wharf. I've heard that Seattle is breathtakingly beautiful, as I still hope to get there someday. I know that you asked where two of us lived, but I was unsure of which two you meant, so I'll tell you where I am, as well as where some of the others are located. I am in Canal Fulton, Ohio. It's close to the Akron/Cleveland area. Dee is in Rutland, Vermont. Cathy is in New York, close to Buffalo, I believe. Barb is in Florida, near Tampa, I think. Lori is in Michigan. (she is the super brave woman who has just had her book released called "Lori's Song"- I strongly encourage you to read about her & hear her story! It's truly amazing!) If you go to the "Home" page of this forum & look at the "Moderators Only" section, there is an announcement about Lori being interviewed on her book. In that announcement, Dee also put in the links to lead you to where you can hear her entire interview, as well as Lori's website. It's an incredible story that covers many topics, as well as drug addiction throughout the entire story. I went to try to buy it this past week at Barnes & Noble & they were completely sold out! Hardback & paper back alike, all of them were sold out. I had to place an order for them to "hold" a copy of the book for me when they come back in... I can't wait-I'm so excited to have my own copy. Then, I'm going to go track Lori down for her signature. I may not have to go very far though, as the store that I went to is interested in having her do a book signing. I got the contacts name & telephone number for her to call in to see if this is something that she may be interested in doing. (keeping my fingers & toes crossed!!) Anyways, as I keep saying, it is a truly amazing story that she is still even here with us today. Thank you God for letting Lori escape!
Well, I am going to close this up for now, as I have to make my kiddos some lunch & get diapers changed, etc. I really look forward to hearing more from you soon! Please keep us updated on how you are doing with your tapering & everything else too!
Your Friend in Recovery!
Love,
B (Beth)

Thanks,Beth,it was Dee and you who I asked about.There was another lady who" put in her 2 cents"...not sure her name.This site is a little confusing.I did see one video by the doctor about Suboxone withdrawl.I think I will stay at 2 a day for awhile to level out.I think the headaches are tension related and a little Suboxone related ,the sporadic doses.My patient assistance is up in Oct.,so I definitely need to be on low dosage for the cost.I feel better today.Havent called the Pysch doc yet.Need to confirm my coverage first.I don't want to run up another huge cost.I am trying to buy a house.I am not so far down in that deep black hole...I know what that feels like.I need to get more excersize that will help.Antideppressants are such a pain trying to figure out what works and to not get so numb to emotions etc.I have no boyfriend so I am not so worried about sexual side effects LOL,although that seems to be the reason for my depression too.I am single and lonely and want to be married,and have been single for a very long time.It makes me sad.Life is supposed to be shared.We are not supposed to be alone.I live on the East side of Seattle in the country on my friends horse farm.It is a 5 star dressage facility...very nice.

Thanks Dee,I think I will just level out at 2 for awhile in light of the stress I have been going thru,getting a retirement plan in place,trying to apply for a mortgage etc.I did hear from my Doc that Suboxone is going generic next year.That is good news.I don't know WHEN next year.To answer your question about the assistance program,no I was told I am only qualified for one year ,which is almost up.My story is I bottomed out on heroin and pain pills in Hawaii over 10 years ago,and went to treatment ,got clean for almost 8 years,relapsed on Vicodin from a small surgery and proceeded to order Ultram(Tramadol) on the internet.I abused it heavily for 1 year,went to detox,was put on Suboxone for few days ,and released.When I got home,within 24 hours was going thru horrid withdrawls again,had to tough it out.I was sick for a very long time,lost my business,filed bankruptcy.About a year ago,I had some painful injection treatments as a result of a car accident and was prescribed Ultram again.Being VERY careful with it and not exceeding the dose,or abusing it,after a few weeks,was hooked again! called my Doc who I had been seeing for car accident treatment.I knew he was a Suboxone provider because he told me about it.I asked him for it and he put me on it.He is the one I see now.He wanted me to stay on it for awhile,which I have.Ultram is a horrible drug,have you heard of it?

Hi Lise,
How are you feeling today? I'm trying to hang in there, not that anything is wrong at the moment, but I am having a severe toothache. I broke my tooth basically in half & it's been throbbing more & more each day. I know that it needs a root canal & crown, if I would want to keep it, but it is the last tooth on my upper left side. (#15) Due to finances, I will mosy likely have it pulled. The tooth directly under it must have a pretty good cavity in it as well, because it has been hurting that entire side of my mouth, especially any type of pressure from eating, or hot & cold temperatures make me want to go through the roof!! I worked in a dental office for eleven years & I know that I could call that dentist back & he would take care of my teeth, but he had also one of my main "hook ups" & introduced me to all the pills in the first place. I've avoided him at all costs in the past few years. My brother in law is also a dentist, my sisters husband, but of course, this is the week of our annual family vacation, so they are all in the Carolinas. Again, due to finances, we weren't able to go along this year. So, I'm trying hard to wait & make it through until they all return home. Anyways, that's my issue right now. Nothing too serious.
I have heard of Ultram (Tramadol) & have heard that it can be quite addictive. Although, I understand now that the local detox that I'd originally gone to about two years back, which used Subutex for withdrawling those of us on opiates, has switched from Subutec to Ultram to detox the opiate patients now, due to the cost of the Subutex. So, I don't know how that works for withdrawls, seeing that it's not an opiate..? I'm just glad that I went when I did & hopefully won't have to ever return. My first doctor recommended that Ultram be the drug that I'd use if needed for pain, but I never did end up going on them. I thank God for that now. I probably would've left her with three addictions, rather than the one that I had when I began seeing her. She is the same one who put me on the benzos that I am having such a hard time trying to get off of now.. I went in with one opiate addiction, which had already been maintained by the Suboxone, but left with another.. I was very upset that she'd put me on that type of medication (habit forming) when she already knew that I am an addict & never mentioned that fact to me. I figured it out on my own after about three months, when I started growing a tolerance, but of course, I was already hooked by then. I had just never even heard of the medication that she'd prescribed to me. It was called Tranzene & is a fairly long acting benzo. I wish that I would've checked into it first, before just filling it & popping them into my mouth.. But I have now grown to accept that it is what it is & am seeing a new doctor on the 24th to see if I can get his opinion on the situation as well. I do have anxiety & depression issues, so I understand that I do need some sort of anxiety med, but there are not many available that are not habit forming, despite what the labels say. Like Seroquel is one that I continue to hear about for anxiety disorders, but anyone that I've spoken to who has taken it for any length of time states that it's extremely hard to get off of, as well as the side effects. So I don't really know how we're going to go about this. If he wants me to stop the benzos altogether, then I am going to need a taper plan & help from him to make it through that entire ordeal. I really am trying to not stress about that right now, as there is nothing that I can do about it until I see him on the 24th. I guess that old saying about "crossing that bridge when I come to it" is what I am trying hard to keep in mind.
Anyways, enough about me, me, me... How is Lise hanging in there? I am also so happy to hear that you are going to try to stabilize at two per day for awhile, rather than just stopping them altogether. That scared me when I saw that you'd posted that, as I don't want you to have come this far to go backwards. Not that you necessarily would, but I'd hate to see you chance that. What dosage are you currently taking and are you comfortable at that amount?? Please let me know how your doing. You've sounded much better in your more recent posts. I'm glad for that. Try to hang onto that smile of yours. I know how hard that can be at times, but attitude & "brain power" have so much control over how your feeling. I struggle with that same thing, trying to remain positive.. I am just so very happy to hear that your sounding much more confident.
You live in the country on a horse farm near Seattle? That sounds beautiful!! Barbara also raises horses. Do you have pictures that you can upload onto your personal photo album, under the "Gallery" section at the top of the page? You can also go into there & look at the other users albums. Under mine, I have placed pictures of my family, our farm & what my area looks like, as well as a picture of our horse, Velvet. I hope that you might go into there & look at some of the pictures that members have placed into their albums, as well as maybe putting in some pictures of your own! I'd really love to see your surroundings as well as a picture of you!! Hope you'll go take a look & consider it!
I look forward to hearing from you again soon & really hope that your having a lovely day!! By the way, how are your headaches? Are they letting up at all? Does the Tylenol or Motrin help you out at all? I hope that your well!
Talk to you soon!
Love your friend in recovery,
B

Hey Guys,

I just wanted to say hi and I'm reading your posts. I'm in one of my pits of depression. I have to be extra careful of what I take because of my liver. I'm going to lay down before I have to start supper. I start a new show at one of the Disney hotels tomorrow morning. This will keep me too busy and tired to be depressed, plus getting out of the house helps.

I love you all.

There is a destiny that makes us sisters.
Not one of us goes our way alone.
All we send into the hearts of others,
comes back to our own.
Barbara

Thanks,I will check out the gallery.See if I can upload some photos.I am sorry to hear about you troubles as well.I am on the 8 mg tabs of Suboxone,currently at about 2 and 1/2 to 3 a day.Still have some minor headahes and minor depression.I am hanging in there though.

Hi Lise
Yes I have heard of Tramadol, (Ultram) and I do agree with you 100% it is a horrible drug. I know that for awhile up here in Vermont the doctors went crazy prescribing it to just about everyone that had an ache or pain. The theory was that is was as effective as Vicodin or other narcotics without the risk of dependency to the patients, as it is non-narcotic. Well just because it is said to be non-narcotic that doesn't mean that it is a safe drug to take.
I want to add that you can become dependant on it.
I want to also stress that Ultram should not be taken with Suboxone:
Read On:
buprenorphine (Ingredient of Suboxone) and Ultram (traMADOL) (Major Drug-Drug)
GENERALLY AVOID: Concomitant use of tramadol increases the seizure risk in patients taking other opioids. These agents are often individually epileptogenic and may have additive effects on seizure threshold during coadministration. CNS- and respiratory-depressant effects may also be additive. In patients who have been previously dependent on or chronically using opioids, tramadol can also reinitiate physical dependence or precipitate withdrawal symptoms.
GENERALLY AVOID: Mixed opioid agonist-antagonist analgesics such as buprenorphine, butorphanol, nalbuphine, and pentazocine may theoretically decrease the analgesic effects of tramadol or cause withdrawal symptoms in patients who have been taking tramadol.
MANAGEMENT: Concomitant use of tramadol and other opioids, including mixed agonist/antagonist analgesics, should be avoided in general. Tramadol should not be used in opioid-dependent patients, and use in patients who are chronically on opioids is also not recommended. Tramadol is contraindicated in patients with acute opioid intoxication. Tramadol dosage should be reduced if it must be used in patients receiving opioids. Patients should be monitored for development of seizures and CNS and respiratory depression.

naloxone (Ingredient of Suboxone) and Ultram (traMADOL) (Moderate Drug-Drug)
MONITOR: The risk of seizures may be increased when naloxone is used to treat a tramadol overdose.

MANAGEMENT: Patients with a suspected tramadol overdose should be closely monitored for seizure activity.
source: Drugs.com: Go to Drugs.com

If any of you ever have any kind of doubt about a medication that you are taking please discuss it with your doctor. If after talking to your doctor and your still not satisfied about what you have learned or you feel that you still haven't found out what you need to know,then talk to your pharmacist. In the past I have found that my pharmacist knows so much more than most doctors. That is what they go to school for. That is what they study. Drugs and their interactions.
Lise,
I am impressed with the way you have begun to open up and talk here on the forum. Keep up the good work. I am proud of you.

Barbara,
I am sorry to hear that you are again finding yourself entering a depression. Have you talked to your doctor about it? I know that I have asked you about counseling before and that you ahve people at home that you can talk to. But what about an outside counselor?
I know that you don't like to burden your mom with things that bother you. But if you had a counselor that you could talk to and vent with you might be able to get to the root of things.
I worry about you that's all.
Yours,
Dee

Oh Dee,

I go from being greatly happy to depression in a matter of seconds. I had a friend who was going to pay me back some money and in stead of saying she didn't have it, she wouldn't answer my messages and is just ignoring me. It's not the money. I thought she was a friend. I feel like I was raped or something as bad. I let stuff like this eat at me and I can't let go of it. Suboxone seems to be a medicine you can't let things upset you or you will end up sick.

I will go for counseling soon. I start a new gig tomorrow morning and will be too busy to be upset, plus I'll be with my close friends at work. I've got to go get things ready for in the morning, so I'll go for now. Thanks for your concern. I do wish you could come down for a while. I wish you the best on your tests. I wish I could be there for your graduation. We could go celebrate over a good meal and a movie. I want to go see The Time Travelers Wife. It should be a good one.

Nite for now,
Love,
Barbara