Suboxone: The Light At The End Of The Tunnel
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Suboxone: The Light At The End Of The Tunnel

Gain knowledge and share experiences with Suboxone, to obtain support through coming together with one bond in common-To help, support and educate others.
 
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 Anyone heard of new 2 tablet/day limit on Sub prescriptions??

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MarkHelpsAll




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Number of posts : 19
Registration date : 2010-01-02

Anyone heard of new 2 tablet/day limit on Sub prescriptions?? Empty
PostSubject: Anyone heard of new 2 tablet/day limit on Sub prescriptions??   Anyone heard of new 2 tablet/day limit on Sub prescriptions?? EmptyThu 07 Jan 2010, 9:54 pm

My last Suboxone appt. my doc informed me that the government was going to enforce a limit ot TWO 8/2 buxone per day. He said that at a conference he was just at a study was presented that said out of maybe 59 ER admissions for opiate abuse/addiction/overdose, something like 50 of the 59 had Suboxone on them that was not prescribed to them. I guess I am naive. I never got a "buzz" from Suboxone and never really thought there even was a street demand for it. But I guess if the alternative is getting dope sick or coming up with a few bills for a binge, I can see a street value. He told me that the gov't is going to strictly enforce a 2-tab/day limit to reduce diversion of Suboxone to the street.

The PROBLEM is that for most of the 2 1/2 years I have been clean and on suboxone, I was on 4/day. As i mentioned in another post, Suboxone has also been helping me battle Borderline Personality Disorder. I know it is not approved for it or even researched for it. I found that it was Suboxone that was helping me feel better mentally long after I started feeling "normal" without really knowing why. When I researched BPD, it suddenly made sense as to why I could stop all other drugs BUT opiates pretty easily. I could not get away from opiates no matter what until I got on Suboxone. It turns out that the mu receptors in the brain that Suboxone works on are also tied to the causes of BPD. I could not stop opiates because I was actually REALLY self-medicating to balance out brain chemicals. WHile they say that opiate addiction can cause the brain to change chemically, in hindsight, I can now see that mine was defective long before I started opiates. When I did start opiates, I was filling in the existing "blanks" ( mu receptors) without really knowing I was

My doc is a real JERK and doesn't care about any of that stuff. I go to him as a necessary evil but I am looking for a different doc. I know that they say that addicts won't benefit from more than 2 day, but i also know how widely the dosages are for people on Suboxone. They CAN'T say that 2 is the maximum for every single person. I know there are people who need and DO benefit from more than 2 because I am one.

I am really worried about having to stick to just 2 day. I have tried cutting down before for money reasons since I pay out of pocket but mentalkly things got BAD

Sorry if I babbled on but it was all still related to that ONE QUESTION.

Has anyone else heard about some new or newly enforced limit of 2 per day ???
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samigirl56

samigirl56


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Number of posts : 256
Age : 67
Registration date : 2009-01-10

Anyone heard of new 2 tablet/day limit on Sub prescriptions?? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Anyone heard of new 2 tablet/day limit on Sub prescriptions??   Anyone heard of new 2 tablet/day limit on Sub prescriptions?? EmptyThu 07 Jan 2010, 11:26 pm

Hi Markhelpsall, From what my Suboxone Provider told me that the DEA is really getting involded to cut the Sub use on the streets. I know the Dea has been at my doctor's office and since then she has been cuting my dose slowly. I think the only people that get a high on it is people that don't have a tolarnence towards opoids. My doctor also told me if things get bad enough out on the streets that Sub could end up like methodone in where we have to go in and get dosed. It really makes me mad where a few bad apples spoils everything for us. Anyways, Welcome to the forum! I hope to get to know you alttle better. Cathy
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bfye

bfye


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Humor : There is no room in your heart for anger when you are filled with gratitude.
Registration date : 2008-11-20

Anyone heard of new 2 tablet/day limit on Sub prescriptions?? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Anyone heard of new 2 tablet/day limit on Sub prescriptions??   Anyone heard of new 2 tablet/day limit on Sub prescriptions?? EmptySat 09 Jan 2010, 4:38 pm

Anyone heard of new 2 tablet/day limit on Sub prescriptions?? Believ10

Hello Mark, Cathy & everyone!
I have been reading about what you were discussing regarding the maximum dosage for Suboxone being two 8/2 tablets per day. I had not heard that this was going to be going into effect as some sort of law, but I do know that my doctor feels the very same & does NOT prescribe more than two tablets per day. Period. The way that he worded it to me was that "two tablets cover over 95% of opiate receptors & to take more than this dosage was just going to give a patient expensive pee!" His words. I personally did not have an issue with this, therefore I did not go into further discussion with him about it, but I do plan on asking him some questions at my next appointment on January 29th about this situation. You have peaked my curiosity because as Mark had mentioned, how can they determine that one dosage will work for everyone? One size fits all? Anyone heard of new 2 tablet/day limit on Sub prescriptions?? Fresse That doesn't seem to make much sense in the medical field, does it? Or is that just me?
Thank you for bringing this up, as I said, I had no idea that the DEA was getting so very involved or that the laws were possibly changing. I will definately be speaking to my own doctor about it & will let you all know what he has to say as well. Anyone heard of new 2 tablet/day limit on Sub prescriptions?? Icon_idea
Thank you!
Your Friend in Recovery,
Beth Anyone heard of new 2 tablet/day limit on Sub prescriptions?? Herz
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nannamom
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nannamom


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Number of posts : 2210
Age : 66
Humor : Once you choose hope, anything’s possible. -Christopher Reeve
Registration date : 2008-11-09

Anyone heard of new 2 tablet/day limit on Sub prescriptions?? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Anyone heard of new 2 tablet/day limit on Sub prescriptions??   Anyone heard of new 2 tablet/day limit on Sub prescriptions?? EmptySun 10 Jan 2010, 1:26 pm

Anyone heard of new 2 tablet/day limit on Sub prescriptions?? Just_a10

From what I can gather, the DEA hasn't announced any plans (as of yet) to put a limit on the amount of Suboxone a provider can dispense. Although I did read somewhere they would like to strongly recommend a lesser amount. I wish I would have bookmarked that page. As it stands now, the amount of Suboxone to be prescribed daily to a patient is between the patient and provider.
I am sure we all agree with Beth. How can you put a one size fits all tag on a patient. Addiction is not a one size fits all problem. As much as we are all the same in so many ways, we are different still.
Our treatments should be designed to fit us and not the words or ideas of a Government Agency.
Many, many people have research the subject of Suboxone and I am sure that many people have suggestions about the drug, but I wonder how many of these people actually suffer from the disease of addiction.

When I first started with my provider, she told me that she would never prescribed over two tablets per day as her experience has taught her that the third pill usually winds up on the streets.
But she also knows that in some cases exceptions can/will and should be made.
In my case last year when I was hit by that van she increased my dose to three 8mg. tablets per day to help with the pain as I refused to take an opiate for the pain I was having with my knee. After a few months she reduced me down to 2 1/2 tablets a day.
She has strict guidelines for her patients, those restrictions extend to where her patients live. She will not take any patients that live over 45 miles away. Cutting down on missed appointments and people saying they need their medications early as they don't have a ride on any other day. She has as most doctors have, heard all of the excuses and has had to make sure to put guidelines in place to cover her butt.

Suboxone has a ceiling dose of 32mg. That is 4 8mg. tablets a day. Not two.
Mark if you have been benefiting with the amount you are currently taking, there should be no reason for you to stop. If there is anything I can do to help you locate a new provider just say the word. I would be more than happy to help.

I am sorry that I did not respond to this post earlier. And I know that I have not been posting as often as I usually do, I have been working on some emails and trying to help some patients locate providers in their area.
Yours in Recovery,
Dee
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http://www.suboxoneassistedtreatment.org
MarkHelpsAll




Male
Number of posts : 19
Registration date : 2010-01-02

Anyone heard of new 2 tablet/day limit on Sub prescriptions?? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Anyone heard of new 2 tablet/day limit on Sub prescriptions??   Anyone heard of new 2 tablet/day limit on Sub prescriptions?? EmptyWed 31 Mar 2010, 12:37 am

UPDATE.

I recently switched to a new sub doctor who was closer and not such a jerk. My Sub doctor for 2 1/2 years charged $150 per appt. I also used him as a regular doctor for anti-depressants and blood pressure pills. During one of my last vists there, the doct had already refused to refill my maintenance drugs for depression and high Bp until I came in and had a "regular" appt. I actually had to go cold turkey off both of those meds because I couldn't afford separate visits. WHen I was there for Suboxone, I had to get those refilled but he wouldn't do it unless I went out and paid $50 at the desk. Then he came back in and wrote the refills.

REal class act, huh?

I started calling around to switch to a closer and maybe cheaper doctor. EVERY one told me that I would have to start my treatment over again, going every week, blah blah, AND pay the outrageous initial fee of $400-500 AGAIN!!

Finally I found one doct closer by, only charges $100 for the visit and when I was there the FIRST time, HE mentioned and offered to write fills for my other maintenance drugs, no extra charge !!

He didn't even give me a hassle about switching to him. He looked up my pharmacy record on a state database, saw that I was a regular, NORMAL suboxone patient and accepted me in.

I even called my old doct to have them document that I was seeing a new doct just so I wouldn't be accused of doctor shopping.

When I went to this new doc a few months ago, I explained that I had been on a 4 dosage for a long time but had just dropped to 3 and he said although TWO was preferred, he had no problem doing 3-tabs per day but no more than that.

BUT at my last appt. he was pushing hard and basically TELLING ME that I had to drop to two. He is planning on dropping me to 2 1/2 at next appt. and 2 the one after that.

I have NEVER ONCE diverted a single pill. I have almost THREE YEARS CLEAN !! I lost my job just a month after getting clean in June 2007.

FOr the past year I have been paying out of pocket, almost $25 a day (currently) with occasional unemployment checks and selling books on Amazon to survive. STILL OUT OF WORK but STILL CLEAN.

I would LOVE to drop to TWO a day if I could but it is horrible when I try. It would save me $200 a month. BUT I KNOW that THREE is the minimum dose for me and I would actually rather be back on four but I want to stabilize at a lower dose of 3.

I will almost certainly relapse if I have to drop to two. My last doctor, the jerk had basically already said that I had to drop to two soon.

I am not a medical doctor but I know myself better than anyone. I was also a quality engineer by trade and heavily trained in Statistics. The push to force people to a lower dosage based on some small sampling and that 95% fill data is BAD medicine and BAD statistics.

Some people can tell the difference between half and full doses of just the small dosage tablet and others need much more.

I believe that before I ever became addicted to opiates, that I already had pre-existing deficiencies in having the proper fill/balance in the mu receptors, probably equivalent to a heavy opiate user. And then I made it worse with 20 years of opiate addiction.

i KNOW that two will not work and THREE is just barely working.

MY PLAN
At my next visit I am going to give my doct a previously prepared letter detailing that I do not consent to lowering my dosage any further. IF I am forced to lower my dosage because of some arbitrary gov't interference, it will be a DEATH SENTENCE for me.

AS we all know as addicts, when we relapse, we start right where we left off. I was probably less than a month away from getting a large qty of heavy opiates from a pharmacy by whatever means necessary. After that would be death from overdose, suicide by cop or suicide in jail.

I KNOW that is what awaits if I relapse again. I KNOW my next relapse will be my last. I am worried as hell but I am not going to back down.

Their argument is ridiculous. A doct wouldn't think of forcing lower dosages for anti-depressants or blood pressure because of some small study, ignoring what is working for the patient.

My next appt. is on Apr. 15th or so and I will know more after that
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nannamom
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nannamom


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Number of posts : 2210
Age : 66
Humor : Once you choose hope, anything’s possible. -Christopher Reeve
Registration date : 2008-11-09

Anyone heard of new 2 tablet/day limit on Sub prescriptions?? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Anyone heard of new 2 tablet/day limit on Sub prescriptions??   Anyone heard of new 2 tablet/day limit on Sub prescriptions?? EmptyWed 31 Mar 2010, 4:00 pm

Anyone heard of new 2 tablet/day limit on Sub prescriptions?? Lav_fl11
Hello Mark
Reading you post reminds me of exactly WHY Deborah created not only this forum but BOTH websites as well. It is to educated the public. The public and medical profession can be so biased, I can't understand how they can place limitations of one patient based on the findings of what works for another patient.
As long as there is no limitations set by the DEA and or any other government office, your dose should be left as it is. As long as it is helpful to you.
When I first started Suboxone, I was stable at 2 tablets per day. In December of 2008 I was hit by a van while crossing the street. My provider raised my dose at that time to three tablets per day but she let me know that two a day is the norm for her patients. She feels the third tablet most always winds up on the street. She was willing to raise my dose temporarily due to stress and pain from my injuries.
I wonder if that is what your doctor is thinking as well.

Please keep us posted on what your doctor has to say. Your treatment should not be determined by the outcome of others.
Yours in Recovery,
Dee
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MarkHelpsAll




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Number of posts : 19
Registration date : 2010-01-02

Anyone heard of new 2 tablet/day limit on Sub prescriptions?? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Anyone heard of new 2 tablet/day limit on Sub prescriptions??   Anyone heard of new 2 tablet/day limit on Sub prescriptions?? EmptyWed 07 Apr 2010, 9:14 pm

UPDATE!!!

Just went to the doc today. Was supposed to go next week but he was going to be gone then.

STILL ON THE DOSE of 3 that works right for me !!

He had wanted to take me down to 2 1/2 and then 2.

I just reiterated that 3 was working for me and askedif I HAD TO drop.

He said, no, that it was NOT a gov't push but based on the medical research that he was pushing for 2.

HOWEVER, based on the approach he was taking as well as my last doctor, I DO think that there is some pressure on suboxone doctors by the DEA.

Knowing how the gov't works, I would bet that they have stats on the Suboxone doctors, looking at how many suboxone patients they have, average dose prescribed per patient, average time between visits, etc.

MY guess is that the gov't singles out doctors who stick out from the normal #'s for added scrutiny.

I basically did what I think a lot of people seeing the doctor don't do and that is to be firm about what we want and need as a patient. It is still their call in the end but for the most part, we know ourselves better than any doctor does.

SO, "OFFICIALLY" there is no NEW formal limit by the gov't but based on what I've seen, they are paying much closer attention to dosing.
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